Nov. 12 Asmussen football chat
Monday, November 12, 2012 - 1:00pm
Will Tim Beckman last the season? Will Mike Thomas? Who is the N-G going to pick as its 2012 All-State Player of the Year? Ask anything of longtime college football beat writer Bob Asmussen, who is chatting at 1 p.m. Monday. Submit questions any time.
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Welcome back to another chat. Lots of questions ready to go, so I won't dawdle.
With all the ‘rumblings’ we’re hearing about Beckman’s assistants and the fact that a major reason recruits come to a school is their ‘relationship’ with their recruiter/position coach, can we expect to lose some recruits? If there are coaching changes, when would you expect them to be made?
Illini1973,
There is always a danger of recruits picking another school, though I haven't heard about any in the current Illinois class. I've talked to a couple of coaches of recruits in the past couple of days and they say their guys are still on the way.
While the position coach/recruiting coach is important, the head coach is really the critical part of why a player makes a choice. And I don't see Tim Beckman moving on.
If there are changes on the staff, it won't be long after the season. There are going to be openings across the country and you want to give yourself a chance to hire good people and give your coaches who are leaving a chance to find other jobs. I'm guessing early December for any kind of announcement, if there is one.
Asmussen writes:
And, to the credit of the folks in the stands, they hung in there despite the wind, even after the sun went down.
Herb Gould writes:
You know it’s a bad sign when the game is tied 3-3 at halftime and there are fewer people in the stands when the third quarter starts than there were when the second quarter ended.
Are you two sitting in the same area of the press box?
I guess I'm a glass half full kind of guy,
We were sitting in the same press box. From my perspective, the crowd hung in there pretty well. Maybe not everybody, but a decent portion. Of course, the stunning weather helped.
Still, no matter how you look at it, the Illinois crowds aren't close to what the school wants/needs. It might be able to survive a couple years with lower attendance, but eventually, there will be some pain caused by the smaller crowds.
When I moved to Champaign, that stadium seated 15,000 more people than it does today. There's no way to get those people back. But closer to capacity must be a goal in the coming years.
Thanks for doing these chats, Bob.
I understand the OL and WR are poor, but should Nate Scheelhaase be switched to some other position like slot receiver next year? Given his quality of play this year and the continued lack of arm strength, is it possible that either Reilly O'Toole or Aaron Bailey (if he comes) could take over next year? If Reilly can't do it either is there a plan to bring in a juco QB until Bailey is? I would think Beckman has an incentive to make big changes to save his job as next year looks pretty bleak otherwise.
Also, whatever happened to Evan Wilson? He looked big and athletic as a freshman. If he's stuck down the depth chart at TE, maybe a switch to DE would be appropriate? He's got the size for it.
GlenM,
I[ve never considered the idea of Nathan Scheelhaase playing another position because it was never presented as much of an option. I know he wants to play QB, but would also do anything to help the team . So, if he was asked to consider a switch, I don't think he would resist.
Will that happen? I doubt it. He is among the most productive quarterbacks in school history and as you point out, isn't getting much help. If the coaches feel Reilly O'Toole is a better option, they will look into it.
I don't think you can ask Aaron Bailey to play as a true freshman. A year sitting as a redshirt ad learning would be huge for him.
Evan Wilson has had some injury issues. But I agree that he's a talented kid and needs to be on the field more,
When will the shell game of 2 offensive Coordinators end..............Illini ranked 117 out of 120? It is not working 3 points at home against Minnesota, I do not see a Big ten win next year either.
Horrid,
Given the struggles, I anticipate a change. I'm not sure in what form it will be. Could be new coaches, could be a shuffling of the current coaches.
I think we will find out soon. Tim Beckman is going to want to get started on next season the second this season ends. And I think he understands that an overhaul has to be considered.
Even though it is a great idea I do not see how the Chicago game next year is going to be an easy sell, unless the Bears play right after the game. Is the plan to bundle the Chicago game in with season tickets to help with the sale of both? Hopefully I am wrong because this can be a big recuiting tool.
Orange/Blue,
I have not heard the specific plans for selling the Chicago game, but hghly doubt it will be packaged with season tickets. And I can't imagine that field could take back-to-back games like Illinois and the Bears.
It is a tough sell, which is a shame because I think it's an interesting opponent for Illinois. Honestly, I think the only team Illinois could play at Soldier Field that would fill the place would be Notre Dame. And that would be a lot of Irish fans. I think Mike Thomas would take that game if Notre Dame was willling, but I don't see it happening.
Washington should be one of the Pac-12 North favorites next season. Good coaching staff and a lot of talent on hand.
I would like to see Illinois bring in a big-time SEC school to Soldier Field in the future (Alabama, LSU, Florida). I think that game would draw fans.
I saw it in the chat announcement so I'll through it out there: Beckman survives this season and still coach next year at Illinois, right? If not, then who would be willing to fill the void that has the skills we need to pull off a miracle?
Chad,
Tim Beckman will be the coach at Illinois iin 2013. No question aboout that. You can't fire a coach after one season if you ever expect to hire a replacement. Who would go to work for such a place? Oh, actually, Mike Dantoni. But that's the NBA, where the rules are different.
College football is more civilized. You don't fire a coach without giving him a fair shake.
Bob -
Do you see Mike Thomas's latest overall silence as more of a good or bad thing involving Tim Beckman's future?
If TB is retained, what do you think will be his first step(s) right after the NW game? (in terms of staff personnel moves)
Thanks :-)
Illini Power,
I don't read much into Mike Thomas these days because I don't think there is any move for him to make, He is going to support his coach and he should.
I think Tim Beckman will sit down with the people he is closest to and map out a plan to get the program turned in the right direction. I do think there will be changes on the staff, but I'm not sure which ones. And I'm not sure Beckman knows which ones either. I think he will look at each coach from an individual and team standpoint.
He will also have to be considering his outside options for replacements. And whether or not he wants to make any substantial scheme changes.
And he's also got to work on his underclassmen who might be thinking about leaving early for the NFL.
Tell me we will have 1 offensive Coor in 2013 not 2?
Offense,
I do think that will be the case. Not guaranteed. But likely. I think it can work with one, two or three guys. It helps to have the personnel, which I think has been the biggest problem for Illinois.
Morning Bob,
Time to stop defending this coaching staff. Seven losses, most by way of blowout. Can't even stop Indiana or Minnesota, worst defdense and offense in Big Ten. Seriously 3 points?
I've had enough. I wasted several hours again on Saturday but no more. Beckman has to go.
Resign,
I wouldn't characterize what I'm doing as defending the coaches. I'd say it's more like dealing with the reality of the situation. You can't fire a coach after one year. It isn't done and it shouldn't be done.
The problem for fans is the expectations exceeded the team's capabilities. Beckman did part of that to himself with the bracelets. Although, I admire setting high goals.
I will say that I enjoyed my time at the game Saturday. Being out on a nice day is a great thing.. But I do understand your frustrations.
BTW Bob, on Saturday morning as you arrived at the game there was only one Big Ten team that was already bowl INeligible. Very, very sad to constantly be at the bottom looking up.
People just don't keep identifing themselves with the things that make them sad.
Given that the program seemed to be in good shape in 2007, the backward steps have been a bummer for the Illinois fans. I don't know that there is a good answer other than try to make the best of it. But at some point, stepping away might make the most sense.
Bob, continue to follow your doctor's orders, but be careful watching college football. Great weekend for finishes. My questions are as follows:
1. Have your seen any improvement in any of the areas of this Illini team, from the beginning of the season until now? I am not talking about the young players, but in the schemes of the team.
2. Does Scheelhaase have any aspirations for pro football? If so, he should be moved to wide receiver or another position, like Minnesota did with Gray. This offense does not seem to fit his skill set.
3. Was Mike Thomas lazy in his research for the new head coach? Did he not know that Beckman was a poor defensive coordinator for Ok State, and the defensive stats were lousy for his Toledo team? Why allow Beckman the opportunity to can an excellent d-coach in Koenning? Why did Thomas not recognize he needed an offensive-minded head coach with experience in calling plays? Unlike Thomas's previous hires in Kelly and Jones who had much more head-coaching experience than Beckman, is not Mike Thomas really the person who should be blamed for this year's football fiasco?
4. Finally, for the Purdue game, what Illini apparel should I wear? The Fight Hunger Bowl, the Wrigley Field, and the Texas Bowl shirts did not bring us a win. Even the Zook'em hat did not work. I am thinking of something related to Illini basketball. What do you think?
Dr. Phil.
1. How about special teams? Seems like the returners are starting to figure it out and the punting has gotten better. And the field goal kicking is again in good shape. Not much other than that,
2. I do think Nathan S. has pro aspirations, probably as a quarterback. Tom Lemming saw him a year ago and said he is growing into the size of a kid who will have a chance. I'm going to take Tom's word for it. No matter what he does in life, I think Nathan S.. will be a success.
3. The first coach Mike Thomas went after was Kevin Sumlin. That would have been a home run hire. The second call was to Larry Fedora. Another good choice. I think Mike Thomas turned over every stone he could to find his next guy and was happy with his final choice. THe problem was that Sumlin had a more appealing option. Illinois has to build its program to the point where that isn't the case. That isn't Mike Thomases fault.
4. Try wearing Purdue clothes. I call that the reverse jinx.
Bob,
President Easter grew up in TX, so you would assume he is a fan of football to some extent. He certainly has to be a fan of the revenue that a good football program generates. He has been on campus for a LOOOONG time and has seen the ugliness that is Illini football throughout the years. Do you think any of those things affect the patience he has/does not have with Mike Thomas and Tim Beckman? I know it's hard to fire someone for a bad one-year record, but would it be out of the question to fire someone in one year for looking completely and utterly incompetent?
kg,
I understand Bob Easter is a great guy. And I'm sure he is disappointed in the football record. But I'm guessing he would be more disappointed in a program that felt like it couldn't give a coach more than one year to prove himself. Knee-jerk reactions aren't a way big-time schools wants to do business..
He's also got to trust the people in charge of athletics to do the right thing.
So let me get this straight....NS at QB gives the team the best chance to win but the team has no chance of scoring if hes at QB. Hmm sounds like a recipe for success to me.
Your take is that you can't fire Beckman after this year because then you wouldnt get anyone to come coach here. Yet the alternative is to wait another 2 years when the fan base is beyond demoralized and apathetic and home attendance is sub 20,000. We will definitely get a quality hire that wants to deal with that right? Do you really see Beckman winning more than 2-3 games a year for the next 2 years? If not, why should we trust Mike Thomas to have a do-over in picking the next head football coach? His insistence on only hiring coaches with head coaching experience is BS and is the reason why we have this crap coach.
What gets me is the constant small-time thinking by everyone in the AD to the Administration. No one ever makes the correlation between a winning football program and the money that follows, increased applications, etc. It benefits all at the school. So after 2 years when Beckman is run off and the Zook/Weber money is off the books, what chance is there that Thomas thinks big and actually PAYS the money that it will take to get a quality coach in here? Cause if not, then IL football will constantly be in this cycle of being what we always have been. Perpetual losers.
Illiniwek,
I don't think we know what will happen in the future with Tim Beckman. I think you have to give him a chance to turn it around. I don''t think the fan base will dwindle like you wrote. I think rock bottom is pretty close right now.
So, let the guy see if he can turn it around. if he can't, I promise will find the money to pay a replacement.
I see Illinois as a program with potential. I can't be the only one who sees that.
Do you see any chance of winning either of the last 2 games?
David,
I think Saturday's game against Purdue is winnable for Illinois.
I think the finale at Northwestern will be difficult. The Wildcats want to put a hurting on their remaining opponents and Illinois has struggled in that building.
Hello Bob,
It has been said that Beckman is looking to get as many as 8 JUCOs to sign for next season. And I am assuming that number includes Martize Barr who has already signed. As I understand, Mike White re-juvinated the program in the 80's with a large number of JUCOs from the California JC system. And wI also understand that since that happened, tighter admissions policies at our school have been enforced which is why in the recent past when we really want to kick start things, we haven't been able to sign very many JUCOs. Given the state of the program, would the adminstration come up with a compromise to admit more JUCOs? Would having all these JUCOs necessarily give us new life? Or would they scare potential future high school recruits in to not wanting to come here as they would feel like the JUCO would get the playing time?
Dman,
I think any jucos who sign with Illinois will be players who have the academic credentials to get into Illinois. Either they will be qualifiers out of high school or junior college graduates.
I don't think they will scare away high school recruits.. This will be viewed as a temporary situation to replenish need areas and the coaches will explain it that way.
I don't think Illinois will be bringing in eight JC players every year. But a couple makes sense.
When Ron Turner came on board, we knew we had hired a proven tactician who understood the game. When Ron Zook came on board, we knew we had hired a proven recruiter and players' coach. Both had very, very tough first years, comparable to or maybe even worse than Beckman. However, there was optimisim for the future because we knew about their strengths. Also, consensus was that when they both arrived, the cupboard was bare.
What are Beckman's strengths? Yes, he won (somewhat) at Toledo. Yes, he was a good recruiter at Toledo. No, he hasn't suddenly lost his coaching abilities he had. Unlike some Illini fans, who love to complain, I really want to be an optimist. What do you think?
California,
I think his strengths are his enthusiasm/energy and his coaching background. Growing up the child of a coach gives him a huge advantage. He has seen all sides of the business.
Of course, there are flaws. Just like with every person. But I think everyone has to be a bit patient with the guy and give him a chance to work it out.
Glad you're back Bob. Best wishes for your continued recovery.
Feel free to address the question on everyone's minds, "Will Illinois fire Beckman?", though I'm inclined to agree with your previous responses - I don't think it's likely.
My first question is about what has happened to Illinois this year. How has their season just fallen apart? While there were some talented players who did not return, going into the season there still seemed to be a decent talent pool as well as some players who were poised to step up/break out. How much of the result is a coaching failure versus a player failure (since they are the ones that are on the field)?
What does Illinois need to do to try and salvage this season?
Scott D,
Last question first: Win one of the final two games. Not that it will do a whole lot to salvage the season.
I think it was a combination of player, coaching and scheme mistakes. Plus, throw in too many injuries and few unexpected defections. The talent seemed to be on hand, but there is always a transition phase that sometimes overwhelms that talent. That happened here.
The blame gets spread around but ultimately falls on the coaches for not making it work. And that's why you will see changes on the staff.
I'm going to cut it off for today. Sorry for the questions we didn't get to. I'll talk to you next Monday.
Have a great week.