Concealed Carry
Recently several concerned citizens have voiced their worries of a concealed carry law in Illinois. I couldn’t agree more; just think of all the horrific things that might happen if we allow law abiding citizens to carry a concealed weapon! In fact, I think we should pass legislation to make it illegal to even own a gun in Illinois! While I’m at it, let’s also make it illegal to drink and drive, do drugs, or even drive recklessly down the road. Oh. Wait. Those laws already exist? I don’t understand. If we have laws that make it illegal to do those things, then why does it still happen? The answer is that the individuals committing the acts are not law abiding citizens, they are criminals. Allowing concealed carry will only affect law abiding citizens. The criminals that have no regard for the law are already doing what they want. Recently someone mentioned that a student might take permanent revenge on a bully if concealed carry was allowed. The bully is in the wrong and the focus should be on his next action. As it does in 48 other states, Concealed Carry allows law abiding citizens to protect themselves, their family, and others against the criminals who have no regard for the law.
The two reason we do not have
The two reason we do not have concealed carry in Illinois, is Chicago and East ST. Louis. Concealed carry, in Illinois, is not about guns it is about politicians making the people of Illinois do their biding. The Supreme ruled the II amendment, gave us right to keep and bear arms and it made Chicago Mayor Dally mad. Now maybe a new Mayor, we can get our rights back, even in Chicago. Make it is about politics and no guns.
Me? I just want to carry my
Me? I just want to carry my gun in my car so when I see cayotes running up to my house to kill my pets, I can fix the problem.
alabaster wrote: "
alabaster wrote: " Personally speaking, if I were caught in the middle of, say, a bank robbery, I would feel a lot more unsafe if I knew every other customer in the bank were also armed than I would if none of them were armed."
If it happens today, you won't know know how many others are armed will you? It's not like concealed carry has yet to happen in IL. It's just not available to the 'regular folks' yet. For all you know, when you grocery shop, you may pass by 5 legal gun owners who are CC. The whole CC issue isn't going to pass in IL as long as Chicago mobsters are running the show, even downstate. Criminals CC and they could care less if it's legal or not. The only option is for current 'legal gun owners' and law abiding citizens to make the decision to throw the rule of law out the window if a situation presents itself. Some will, and they will deal with the legality of their choices later. In the meantime I'm waiting for someone to require training and licensure for cutlery ownership and use as well as for ball bats and other potential lethal weapons. Oh, and rocks.
You may or may not have
You may or may not have noticed, but I support concealed carry...mostly because it isn't effective, seeing as how banning people from doing something doesn't make them stop doing it, and in many cases only makes them want to do it more.
I don't really disagree with anything you said, with a serious exception provided for the last two sentences. It takes about two seconds of reasonable thought to understand that comparing gun training and "licensure" (not a word, FYI) to that of knives and rocks is asinine. We should start requiring training and licensing for knives, baseball bats, and rocks as soon as those weapons are capable of quickly killing scores of people from thousands of feet away like guns are. God forbid you have to wait a couple days and have a background check done on you before you are allowed to purchase something capable of killing dozens of people in the span of a minute, or that we have a licensing program in place to prevent convicted criminals and the mentally ill from owning them...geez.
So who is more naive...the
So who is more naive...the people who think that concealed carry would decrease violent crime, or the people who think that making guns illegal would decrease violent crime? I can't decide, they are both just so gosh darn hilarious...
First, I want to thank you
First, I want to thank you for asking me what I thought instead of making broad, flimsy assumptions like a certain fellow who posted on this thread did. I sincerely appreciate it.
However, I should clarify your post...I actually did not say that concealed carry supporters were naive, per se. I said that people who thought allowing concealed carry would deter violent crime were naive. I think that people who think concealed carry will protect them from violent crime kind of have this fantasy where if someone threatens their safety, they would be able to calmly retrieve their concealed weapon and resolve the situation, either by shooting the assailant or scaring him away. I think it is just as likely, if not more likely, that the concealed carry supporter in question would completely lose their wits and possibly make the situation even more dangerous to their well-being. I think these people greatly exaggerate their hypothetical capabilities to calmly and successfully use their concealed weapon to resolve a threatening situation. I would also posit that most of these people who want to carry a concealed weapon are very paranoid about being a victim of violent crime and think themselves much more likely to a victim of it than they actually are. The comments I often see on News-Gazette articles involving violent crime provide ample evidence for all these perceptions of mine, at least to me.
Finally, since concealed carry supporters seem to enjoy conjuring up hypothetical situations of how a violent crime would have been prevented if not for the ban on concealed carry, here is a hypothetical situation of my own. Personally speaking, if I were caught in the middle of, say, a bank robbery, I would feel a lot more unsafe if I knew every other customer in the bank were also armed than I would if none of them were armed. Bottom line is, I have very little confidence that the vast majority of people could successfully incapacitate and/or chase away a violent criminal. And there is something that is just fundamentally absurd to me about the idea that there would be less gun violence if there were more guns being carried around. But again...I would not oppose concealed carry in Illinois because I do not think there is compelling proof that the government has a valid interest in keeping it banned.
And also, I agree completely that making guns illegal would not be a good solution to deter violent crime. After all, in how many fatal shootings or holdups involving a firearm does the criminal have valid registration for his weapon? I would wager not very often at all. Banning guns would only take them out of the hands of law abiding people. If there are willing buyers for something illegal, there WILL be a black market for that illegal item. Banning drugs obviously has not had a deterrent effect on drug use, and for the same reason it would be ineffective to ban guns.
As the saying goes: You can
As the saying goes: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
So you believe that Illinois politicians are right and the politicians from every other state are wrong? Oooookaaayyyy....
Studies that were made in the other states PROVE, repeat...PROVE, that concealed carry permits cause a downward trend of violent crimes. There's no 'thinking' about it. Have you ever considered that? Don't you think that if there was any conflict of data from any of the studies, that governors and state legislatures would be reluctant to permitting their citizens to take advantage of what our Founding Fathers declared in the Second Amendment as an inalienable (God-given) right.
When I came here today and noticed that someone new had made several contributions in the exchange of opinions on this forum, I was anxious and curious to see what you've brought to the table of discussions. I've seen enough. I know exactly where you're coming from.
Every response you've made to
Every response you've made to me thus far has made it abundantly clear that you have no idea where I'm coming from. My PERCEPTION of where you are coming from (note that I didn't state with certitude that I know where you are in fact coming from, because to do so about somebody after a few exchanges on the internet would be indicative of a narrow-minded crackpot too sure of his own opinions...hint hint hint.)..., again, my PERCEPTION of you, is that...ah, screw it, I've wasted enough time on that point.
First, you assume that I oppose concealed carry. Strike one. I support it, albeit not for the logic-free reasoning that is usually exhibited from concealed carry supporters.
Second, don't make a claim that there is airtight evidence supporting decreasing crime rates in correlation to concealed carry and then not post any of that evidence. Very convincing stuff, especially coming from someone so grounded to reality as we all here know you to be.
Third, you make a reference to the Founding Fathers, showing that for all your posturing about being a free thinker you still engage in the childish personality cult surrounding the founding fathers, who I might also suggest have nothing to do with this argument other than the fact that somebody might try to manipulate something they said to support their position on the issue at hand, as folks so very often like to do. Strike three, hit the showers, son! (On a related note, showers are a conspiracy thrust upon the unsuspecting American people from the secretive American Water Usage Monitoring Commission. I'll tell you all about it whenever I have even more time to waste on Internet discussion forums that nobody reads.)
These links are from
These links are from DrudgeReport.com today. The best argument for concealed-carry.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:lHzJ2PFQcMEJ:peoria...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2008252/Teenage-gang-charged-lyn...
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/06/23/teen-mob-hits-walgreens-off-the-m...
http://www.delcotimes.com/articles/2011/06/26/news/doc4e0696aaf127f552097776.txt?nstrack=sid:3501255|met:300|cat:0|order:1
Send these to the Chicago reps who don't understand why Illinois should join the other 49 states in allowing concealed-carry.
I only clicked one of those
I only clicked one of those stories, but the one that I did read involved a bunch of kids stealing soda and chips from a Walgreens. Seriously. If that's your best argument for concealed carry, you probably shouldn't even bother.
Sorry charlie but what you do
Sorry charlie but what you do not know about conceal carry will and can hurt you. i have a conceal permit in Florida. my home state. When we passed the law years ago uninformed liberals like you cried that it would be like Dodge City. The reality is that crime dramatically decreasesed. Over 800 police Officers are alive today because of assistance from an armed citizen. The requirements to get a carry permit are very stiff. A unpaid parking ticket will prevent you from getting a permit. You have the right to your opinion but you do not have the right to change true facts. On several occasions in Orlando i had the legal right to shoot the punks who were trying to rob us. The mere sight of a weapon changed their mind. Both were very glad that they recieved jail sentences rather than funerals. Oh by the way both incidences occured in the Disney Parking lot.
Could you please send us your
Could you please send us your name and address so we can petition to have your conceal permit revoked? It frightens me that someone who lacks the intelligence or comprehension skills to recognize Sarcasm 101 is in possession of a firearm.
I'm not sure which makes me
I'm not sure which makes me chuckle more: you lumping me in with "uninformed liberals" because I oppose concealed carry, or the fact that people like you that don't understand simple sarcasm are the ones that may be allowed to tote firearms. The poster is arguing for concealed carry, dude.
COULDNT AGREE WITH YOU MORE
COULDNT AGREE WITH YOU MORE
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