What is the problem with voter ID?

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What is the problem with voter ID?

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:20pm | bluegrass

A few years ago I was in a local chain restaurant with my Dad, who was 65 years old at the time, and was and is today without a hair on his head. I never saw my dad drink a beer in his life, but it was his birthday, and I guess he felt like it was about time, so he ordered a beer. For whatever reason, he didn't have his wallet on him, and I'm not kidding, the waitress would not serve him alcohol without an ID. I realize you have to be careful, but really?

So there are questions raised in certain states about whether or not you should be allowed to do the minimum to identify yourself before you vote. Do we really live in a country where a 65 year old man can not be served one beer without photo identification, but you can cast a vote in the name of any person without any identification at all?

What am I missing here?

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alabaster jones 71 wrote on December 29, 2011 at 6:12 pm

That isn't the point,

That isn't the point, bluegrass...

I don't necessarily disagree with the idea that you should have a photo ID to vote. The problem is that it is clearly an attempt to keep some folks, folks who happen to tend to vote Democrat, from voting. It's a disengenous and unamerican trick. What are the reasons given for the necessity of this new restriction? Where is the evidence of a voting fraud problem that this new restriction will solve? Do you think the Republicans supporting these new rules would do so if the voters affected tended to vote Republican? Not bloody likely, and I have no doubt that if seniors, college students, etc. tended to vote Republican then Democrats would be trying to pass the very same photo ID restrictions. Typical politics, trying to win elections with dirty tricks instead of by actually doing more for people and having the most sensible platform.

bluegrass wrote on December 23, 2011 at 2:12 pm

Want to unclog your drain in

Want to unclog your drain in the house, or clean your kitchen floor? We'll need a valid photo id for that.

Want to vote for President of the United States? Don't worry, no ID required.

If we follow the logic, aren't we really discriminating against low income residents of Illinois, the elderly, and (according to other posts here) black people, by requiring them to obtain an ID to buy some ammonia? Are we really going to say to these people, "You must have ID before you are able to clean your homes, or get the hair out of your drains." How hard-hearted is that? How utterly sick we are as a society, to require someone of little means to go through all the work and cost associated with obtaining identification, just so they can be allowed to purchase the very items they need to keep their families safe from infectious diseases, bacteria, fungi, and other household allergens. Are we as a society willing to allow those with the least among us live in filth and squalor, while the rest of purchase Comet at the checkout line and flaunt our identification like a backstage VIP pass to cleanliness? There will be clogged drains from Cairo to Rockford, and from Quincy to Danville because of this legislated bigotry and discrimination. Wake up people, this aggression will not stand, Man.

http://www.news-gazette.com/news/courts-police-and-fire/2011-12-23/buyin...

Citizen1 wrote on December 21, 2011 at 10:12 am

Great idea linking Voter Id's

Great idea linking Voter Id's to LINK cards. You forgot to include out of state people who get LINK cards from Illinois. Letting out of state libs vote in Illinois elections will keep Illinois just humming along.

Citizen1 wrote on December 21, 2011 at 10:12 am

Great idea linking Voter Id's

bluegrass wrote on December 21, 2011 at 10:12 am

I think I have a solution.

I think I have a solution. What if we turned LINK or EBT cards into state ID's with a photo? This way we know people who might need extra help with finances would have access to free identification?

Oh, but wait a minute, in order to get a LINK card you have to fill out an application, and then do an interview, and then prove your identity and financial circumstances to the State. Seems like a lot of work and hassle for someone on little or no income. And yet, in spite of all that, somewhere around 780,000 families managed to get that done and are recieving food stamps in Illinois. Isn't that amazing that so many people could somehow manage to figure out how to accomplish all that, but to obtain an ID that costs $20 every five years is compared to a poll tax.

Hundreds of billions of our taxes are distributed to low income residents for food, housing, medical care, child care, education, and even cell phones, every single year. The more people on aid, the more voters for the libs. The government king throws some scraps over the castle wall to the masses, and the peasants love them for it. That, whatsinitforme, is the feudal system in a nutshell. The King and his nobles in government keeping the serfs in their place, outside the wall.

whatsinitforme wrote on December 19, 2011 at 9:12 pm

The feudalists want to limit

The feudalists want to limit voting by the poor.

CharacterCounts wrote on December 18, 2011 at 11:12 pm

Question? If a out of state

Question? If a out of state student registers to vote do they not consider themselves to be a resident of Illinois. If so, they have 90 days to obtain an Illinois drivers license otherwise they are breaking the law. Don't Illinos students want to have their correct address on their driver's license? Would not a current Illinois driver's license regardless of address and mail with a current address not be sufficient to prove where you live?

Those over 65, those who are disabled, and those who are homeless can obtain a photo identification card free.

Do those who claim they can't afford the $20 dollars for a identification card smoke, drink or have obtained tattoos? If so, they could take some of that money and obtain a identification card.

Perhaps the state could just issue identifaction cards for no charge. That would eliminate any complaints about not being able to have a identification card to prove who you are when you vote. It is my humble opinion, there have been many fraudulent votes in Chicago over the years. Perhaps surveys do not show this, but talk to those who live or have lived in Chicago and they certainly believe some vote more than once. Some even go so far as to say that the dead vote in Chicago. But of course many opposed to voter identification don't want to believe the Democratic machine in Chicago would do anything illegal when it comes to voting. But what would those of us living downstate know about Chicago Democratic politics and the power they exhibit on control of actions in the state or who is elected governor in Illinois.

Citizen1 wrote on December 15, 2011 at 10:12 am

to first reply: You miss the

to first reply: You miss the point. Over regulation limits freedom. A 65 year old should be able to buy a beer without going through a mind field of ID. Only legal voters should be able to vote. In Illinois this excludes dead people, multiple votes from the same person, under age people and people excluded by law.

cberg wrote on December 15, 2011 at 9:12 am

Voter fraud is not a

Voter fraud is not a pervasive problem and there are securities already in place to detect it.
It's another form of a poll tax since you have to purchase an ID
It targets minority groups (majority democratic), and proportionately lower income, because of this poll tax. For example, 25% of African Americans do not have an ID.
It targets students (majority democratic) because many only have out of state ID and non permanent addresses where they would otherwise be registered to vote, hindering the process.
Voter ID policies are costly to implement, in turn hurting tax payers.

It's limiting access to voting, targeting certain groups in an attempt to push a political agenda. Exactly what voting is not supposed to be in this country.

#10

bluegrass wrote on December 18, 2011 at 12:12 pm

1. You don't know that voter

1. You don't know that voter fraud is not a pervasive problem.

2. In Illinois a state ID costs $20 for 5 years. Presumably if a citizen is so poor they cannot afford $20 for an ID card, I think the state could work something out.

3. If 25% of African Americans don't have IDs, perhaps they should get an ID. I don't know if I believe that as a fact anyway.

4. If people are registered to vote, I don't see that it makes a difference where their state ID is from or what the address says, as long as they have a state issued ID with their name on it and their picture.

5. I don't see how voter ID policies are costly to implement. The poll workers are voluneteers. If they have to take another 10 seconds to look at an ID, how does that cost money?

I think you're right about one thing, voter ID laws do target certain groups. They target people trying to get over on the system. Checking ID's protects the constitutional rights of those who are doing the right thing.

#11

cberg wrote on December 18, 2011 at 3:12 pm

Actually we do know it's not

Actually we do know it's not a pervasive problem. Multiple non partisan organizations have debunked claims of widespread fraud. For example, A study conducted by President George W. Bush's Justice Department found that, out of more than 300 million votes cast from 2002 to 2007, there were only 86 cases of voter fraud nationwide and that most of them involved immigrants who misunderstood their eligibility. For even further reading: http://www.truthaboutfraud.org/
So you are suggesting already cash strapped states will be willing to shell out cash to fix a non existent problem of "voter fraud" to pay for low income IDs? Thats not the case for most states that have implemented these laws. Too bad you can't pay the $20 over the course of the 5 years. Many people, especially those who live in cities have no need for IDs. Now they would need one only for their constitutional right to vote. For a low income person to shell out $20 up front simply to vote, many are not or cannot do it.
Just because you plug your ears and say lalala doesn't make it any less true. A 2009 study in indiana found that of the citizen adult population, 81.4% of all white eligible adults had access to a driver’s license, whereas only 55.2% of black eligible adults had the same access. A 2007 Indiana study found that 13% of all registered voters lacked ID. Here's some further reading: http://www.brennancenter.org/page/-/d/download_file_39242.pdf
Heres and example how it creates hurdles for students http://www.dailyiowan.com/2011/02/01/Metro/21022.html
"An effective, full-scale voter ID program can easily end up costing state taxpayers $20 million or more -- the three-year price tag officials estimated in 2010 for a program in Missouri. " http://www.southernstudies.org/2011/01/voter-id-laws-carry-hefty-price-tag-for-cash-strapped-states.html

AND I might add we ar still setting ourselves up for more fraud considering many deceased, relocated people, etc IDs are still valid and up for use.

#12

Yatiri wrote on December 18, 2011 at 1:12 pm

Repugs are very interested in

Repugs are very interested in this issue because they believe the Dems cheat even though the facts I've seen don't support the notion that voter fraud is a widespread huge problem.

I don't see anything wrong with a national ID either, but many oppose it. With a tamper proof very difficult to counterfeit National ID many problems could be addressed.

#13

alabaster jones 71 wrote on December 16, 2011 at 11:12 pm

Agreed on all points. Want

Agreed on all points. Want to vote? Sure, but if you don't have the right kind of ID you better be ready to give the state some more of your money first. Sounds like a poll tax to me.

Bluegrass, what "you are missing" is that voting is a constitutional right. Being served an alcoholic beverage is not. There are already regulations to protect against voter fraud. If the ones in place are inadequate, then they ought to be replaced with something that doesn't attempt to circumvent the law against poll taxes.

#14

bluegrass wrote on December 23, 2011 at 3:12 pm

Not to be a stickler, but

Not to be a stickler, but there is no "constitutional right" to vote. There are sections of constitution which give reasons for which you cannot be kept from voting. One of those, the 24th amendment, was written to allow someone to vote even if they haven't paid a poll tax. Whether or not requiring identification to vote meets the definition of a poll tax will be left to the courts.

But assume for the moment that requiring identification amounts to a poll tax. Let's discuss the 2nd amendment, which provides us with a constitutional right to keep and bear arms. However, to do so legally in the state of Illinois I must present certain forms of identification to state and provide a picture of a certain specification and pay a fee in order to obtain yet another form of identification, which I must present in order to purchase my arms and/or ammunition. So by your measure, the FOID card infringes on my constitutional rights under the 2nd amendment.

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