Police State
In a recent January 4, 2012 article in the News Gazette, titled, “Tensions over June 5 arrest still at a boil”, it was reported that tensions between the Champaign police department and some of the city’s leadership, was continuing to escalate over the brutal arrest of a jaywalker.
We see in this situation, the primary threat to our democratic way of life and the freedoms for which millions have given the ultimate sacrifice to maintain. Wherein an evolving police state now rises in earnest and begins to challenge those who would dare question their authority over us all.
There is no defining moment when America began this decline into an authoritarian regime, no single event that changed the course of our society. It can however be stated with some certainty that when our police ceased to be those who “Protect and Serve” and became “Enforcement”, we created an alternate belief system that now empowers and emboldens a new generation.
Our local Enforcement agencies are today based upon military style tactics, militarized systems and ultra secure communications, wherein a “them-and-us” paradigm is created. It is a highly profitable lifestyle with pay in the upper income levels of our society, comprised of cloistered members who are more than willing to “watch the back” of their fellow comrades and agencies, while having little fear of oversight or inquiry.
With the introduction of the PATRIOT Act that stripped Americans of their Constitutional rights and subsequent Czar of Homeland Security who controls something called the NSA (National Security Agency), a seamless Gestapo style apparatus has been created. An integrated and highly secure National Enforcement system that accounts to no one and cannot be overseen by the citizens it dominates.
Under the ruse of “Terrorism”, a megalithic system of control and domination has been created, now culminating in the military’s recent ability to hold indefinitely, without charges or notification of location, any citizen the government deems is an enemy of the state. In addition, Federal legislation is currently being introduced that would strip the citizenship from those who would be a threat to the state.
Our military, has over the last 10 years of Middle East warfare, created many weapons for urban conflict that are now well tested and have been distributed among the three military brigades now permanently assigned to American soil.
Some of these urban control weapons are now being offered to local Enforcement and Federal funding continues to flow, so as to assure complete penetration of all communities across the country. Systems and processes rarely mentioned, never talked about and closely guarded as secret.
There is a reason why Enforcement does not want citizen review groups. Why laws are in place that make it a crime to record in any manner, the public activities of Enforcement personnel. And why citizens are not allowed to monitor or audit the secure communications that empower the secret world of Enforcement.
To question or challenge this growing power is to invite scrutiny of your life. I would advise the City of Champaign leadership to tread carefully in these matters and if they choose to continue, be prepared to become “a person of interest” as I have. To expect tapped communications, inquired accounts and acquaintances interviewed, as none of these today require warrants by Enforcement when dealing with threats against the state.
And according to Federal Governmental guidelines for local Enforcement training, anyone who challenges authority, makes references to Constitutional Rights and questions official governmental explanations of events, is to be classified as a threat to the state.
So the next time you have to stop at a Enforcement roadblock, euphemistically called a “roadside check”, just do as your told, provide the proper papers, answer the questions without a hint of resentment in being detained without probable cause and just maybe you’ll be allowed to go on about your business.
“"At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify against it? Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant, to step the Ocean, and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest; with a Bonaparte for a commander, could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a thousand years.
At what point, then, is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide.”” ~ Abraham Lincoln (January 27, 1838)
Not a single reliable source.
Not a single reliable source. You should reconsider where you get your information.
Pen; I do not have the
Pen; I do not have the authority, or power to have you "exterminated", or "imprisoned"; and I have never called for that. I do not even have the authority to have you hospitalized for treatment. I would encourage you again to seek treatment though.
Your government which is elected by the people is not seeking to become autocratic. There are no such things as the "Illuminati", and the "New World Order". You do not point out "factual truths". They are only the fantasies created by other deranged people seeking a following. You have found a following with your comments. You have Local Yocal, and ......; well, you have Local Yocal. Get some help for your family's sake.
That seems a sane policy as
That seems a sane policy as to what a "trouble maker" should be defined as, a Timothy McVeigh, a Jared Loughner, a Sueng-Hui Cho, ect.
The question is how do "authorities" define what a trouble maker is? Are kids in Minnesota organizing counter protests at the GOP National Convention in 2008, trouble makers? Are people who are advocating that the Constitution be obeyed trouble makers? How about people who question the spending priorities of government budgets, government contracts with high-powered corporations providing useless weapons or overpriced services? How about people who question the wars? How about people who would seek political office, and are willing to compete against the status quo-ers, the D's and R's? Are people who publicly criticize the police or prosecutors or judges or jail guards, troublemakers?
What the Neo-Cons seem to have cleverly done, like back in 1967 to develop the Southern Strategy, is use the very real and legitimate concern of violence, terrorism; to convince all of us that therefore law enforcement needs to go around the due processes once required to surveillance anyone, and detain someone, and now with a drone, assassinate someone without any accountability, without any rule of law whatsoever in the name of public safety. And we're okay with that now, because there be violent, murderous terrorists out there. Thank you very little Adam Lanza, et al.
What Penteller and many others have documented to some degree is that by seizing this grand opportunity of people's legitimate fears of violence, (thank you very little 9-11) they have built a massive observatory and control system that could be used for nefarious reasons like controlling the Congress, controlling the media, controlling free enterprise, controlling dissent, controlling elections without barely any detection let alone Constitutional protections for the private citizen. Some, like Penteller, claim it's long been already happening; and to others like Sid, that's nonsense.
That Sid would be begin to wonder if "authorities" monitor electronic communications is a partial wake up to the techniques now deployed by law enforcement. Next time a news story is written that somebody got busted with child pornography, ask how police were able to discover it. That part of the story doesn't get talked about. Just like the details of "routine traffic stops" aren't talked about as to how the officer was able to detect a suspended license. We've accepted this stuff as good police work, crime was intervened upon, but we're not talking about these systems that allow for unlimited access to randomly fish around, what Lt. Skip Frost at the U of I Police Department calls, "intelligence-led policing."
Police Departments hide behind "calls for service," or "problem areas," to disguise their ability to conduct random searches without our consent, without probable cause. They publish the "successes" when the random searches hit upon actual violations of the law, but how many times have Police pulled someone over to discover nothing wrong? Or looked over Sid Saltfork's email accounts to discover he's just a political junkie who likes to comment on news sites? There is little accountability to how police operate nowadays.
Likewise, there is very little accountability how prosecutions happen in Champaign County. Of the 8000+ police reports that are submitted to the State's Attorney's office each year in Champaign County, the State's Attorney only prosecutes about 2000 felonies, 1500 misdemeanors. What is the process, what are the demographics of the defendants, what are the type of charges, of the 4,500 cases that get dismissed into the ether? There is little due process to who gets arrested, for what type of charge, or how a person will be prosecuted, and how a person will be sentenced.
It's this state of policing that makes many, like Penteller, wonder, are we now living in a Police State of the 1984 variety? It's not helpful to the inquiry to immediately write off such questions as "tin foil" lunacy.
Likewise, there is very
Likewise, there is very little accountability how prosecutions happen in Champaign County. Of the 8000+ police reports that are submitted to the State's Attorney's office each year in Champaign County, the State's Attorney only prosecutes about 2000 felonies, 1500 misdemeanors.
That oversight is called voting. Prosecutorial discretion is in place in every single jurisdiction. Actually, 3,500 prosecutions out of 8000+ police reports is rather high.
"That oversight is called
"That oversight is called voting."
I don't disagree, but would add: an alternative candidate(s) to vote for, honoring Freedom of Information Act requests for needed information, allowing research studies be done on prosecutorial patterns, cameras in the courtroom, local C-Span TV channels to cover the courtrooms, different news agencies other than the prosecutor's friend reporting on the cases, more people attend court room proceedings, and the AARDC take seriously complaints filed against any wrong doing.
Agreed completely. I just
Agreed completely. I just don't think that doing away with prosecutorial discretion is a good idea, for several reasons. I think proper oversight and information IS a good idea to ensure that prosecutorial discretion doesn't run unchecked.
Well, start communicating
Well, start communicating with Pen. You guys can discuss the "high priestess" who makes perfume from "Belladonna, semen, and synthetic blood based on the priestess's blood" while chanting to the "Sun God Ra". Yeah, he says things like that. Read them in his other comments. If you agree with that junk; all I can say is "Whoo, whoo, Boo! The Boogeyman is coming!" Keep us all up to date on the UFOs, and unicorns while your at it.
Yawn. Back at it again, I
Yawn. Back at it again, I see. Just when you think there is some civility and open-minded progress made, Fork in the Road reverts back to his salty forked tounge. I'd rather stick to keeping you updated about The Patriot Act, The Supreme Court, the next draconian drug law, the next law that overrides the judiciary, and puts decisions into the sole hands of one or two elected officials, like a president or prosecutor, or majority caucus leader. If you had any interest.
Oh and here's this update: yo, state workers! Remember that pension you thought you had? You still want it? You pay for it! Promises? What promises? Now you grumblers to a hypocritical conspiracy to rob you and all those years of hard work you put in just remember the Sid Saltfork Rules of Engagement: no whining. Whoo, whooo, a promised pension? You people should stop by the State House Gift Shop and order up a tin foil hat if you ever thought that was happening. Move along folks, no robbery or conspiracy to see here...
Speaking of Sun Ra gods,
Speaking of Sun Ra gods, somebody wrote this recently:
"I had believed in some power before joining a religion. I watched the sun come up, and go down. I watched things born; and watched them grow. I saw them die also. It seemed to me that man was egotistic in thinking that he was more special than what was around him."
I would be quite the rude person to belittle this idea as equivalent to unicorns and UFO's and boogeymans. The writer of the above text even braced for impact knowing these forums have become gladiator rings for slaying the honest. Instead, I'll respect the above, knowing that when we say, "...some power...," that concept can be very mysterious, undefinable, or all of us are given a small sliver of the pie to perceive, slivers that are different.
Myself, I have no stomach as yet for looking at The Illuminati, or Evil, or satan, or whatever Penteller has alluded to in some of his citations. I haven't studied history, mysticism or whatever makes such concepts likely, nor would books give me the reality of experience. I traffic in the pedestrian of what I barely understand, and attempt to do so sincerely, despite by culturated tendency to be a sarcastic smart ass. I appreciate it when folks here call me on it.
All that to say, the belittling, dismissive flamethrowing without nary a reason to support such gestures does not help what we come to these forums to do, debate our times. I'd like the disagreements to be a tad more productive and enlightening beyond, "Local Yocal sucks." I already know that.
I do watch the sun come up.
I do watch the sun come up. I meditate during that time; and give a prayer at the completion. I don't believe in Satan unless it is in a personal form of murderer, or other heinous offender toward others. I have studied History, and have a degree in it along with others. I think that both of us fall into the "culturated tendency" to be sarcastic smart asses.
I do not call for the use of violence. I support reasonable gun regulations even though I am a gun owner. I do not believe that our government of elected officials are part of a great conspiracy. Misguided, corrupt, and dumb at times; but not a conspiracy. I believe that some groups have been discriminated against in the past, and today. I support same sex marriage. I support de-criminalizing some recreational drugs. I see the citizens becoming the working poor, and poor while safety in the workplace, and decent wages return to the early 1900's style. I support unions. I believe that our country has "dumbed down" due to ever changing revisionist history in mass media, and the internet.
I will debate on what I believe with you; but I have no regard, or time for the ignorant, or fools. Yes; I belittle, and dismiss the ignorant, and fools. There are plenty of them proclaiming conspiracy theories instead of looking at things in depth. Conspiracy theory is the lazy way to confront issues. It is the fodder for fools, and the mentally ill.
Here's some more propaganda
Here's some more propaganda paradise for Sid:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgM5NAq6cGI&NR=1&feature=endscreen
www.youtube.com/watch?v=a99ZHfsFiKk
www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5OkHysPNog
Oh my..... I never
Oh my..... I never realized.... I feel so guilty......
Like I told you; I feel no guilt about things that happened without my participation, or before my time. I feel no guilt about what I have earned either. Grow up. If you feel strong about something, do something about it instead of sitting around with the like minded listening to what you want to hear. March if you believe in your cause. Do something besides watching videos, and whining about it.
Oh... if you are university, you can write a petition about it. Yeah, that really works... sure......
"If you feel strong about
"If you feel strong about something, do something about it..."
Good advice.
Okay, let's talk about the
Okay, let's talk about the inequity in justice dealt to people. Let's talk about the supposed government conspiracy also.
The drug laws were written because of the voters views at that time. The politicians pandered to them; and got elected because they were "tough on crime". The voters are, now, a different generation. They are voting in some states for the legalization of recreational drugs. That creates a dilemma nationally because a state may vote for legalization; but the federal laws did not change. The current administration may turn a blind eye toward it; or say that it is a state's right to decide. However, the opponents of the administration party will bang their chests saying that the federal laws have to be obeyed. If enough of their party agrees with the legalization of recreational drugs; it becomes a moot point. The states replace the dealers after that. That is pretty hypocritical for those doing time for selling recreational drugs.
Rich, or middle class citizens use recreational drugs; and get busted for them also. However, not many middle class citizens decide to deal. They buy, but don't deal any weight. When they do get busted; they roll over, and rat out their dealer. The police may, or may not, agree with the drug laws; but they do what they are paid to do. They go up the chain to catch as many as they can. When the middle class go to court; they have "their" attorney, not a public defender. Yeah... justice is based on how much you can spend for it. That has existed since there were courts. Middle class people rarely deal. They use. The dealers are the poor, and working poor who see dealing as making money like anyone else in America. It takes money to live in America. The more you have; the better you live.
Now, you feel that there is a "conspiracy". People see things in absolutes with no gray areas. It is always Right, or Wrong depending on their opinions. The issue is diminishing since the middle class is disappearing. Currently; over 50% of the population is either poor, or working poor. That rate is going to increase. The only thing that can reverse it is growing a middle class. By the way; middle class is not easily distinquishable by race anymore.
Sorry but I don't see things as clearly as you do. I don't see conspiracies as the easy answer to real things. Please tell me that you are not some middle class person wantabee. I would prefer to think that you are only a misguided, blue collar pilgrim trying to come to grasps with reality in America.
"The drug laws were written
"The drug laws were written because of the voters views at that time. The politicians pandered to them; and got elected because they were 'tough on crime'."
A fairly close recollection, Sid. My understanding is to put the horse back in front of the buggy. The voters' actual views (as you might remember, what I'm calling the buggy) were a weariness and fearfulness of the race riots at that time; and Nixon and the Repubs manufactured a way (the horse) to take advantage of that fear in order to get elected; and allow the federal government and local enforcement to arrest Nixon's enemies, those least likely to vote for the s.o.b.
Read Smoke and Mirrors:The War On Drugs and The Politics of Failure by Dan Baum (1996), first two chapters go into detail how lawyers Don Santarelli and Egil Krogh created the drug hysteria by using the media to deceive the voters about the 1% of our population, the 1% being drug addicts and recreational drug users, tobacco and alcohol users excused.
Marijuana to Heroin got conflated into becoming the same beast, and thus, the prison boom was borne to take out the hippie and the black from political influence. Baum's endnotes are fairly comprehensive and persuade me anyway, that this fantastic scenario (like the Gulf of Tolken was a big lie as was the 1990 Kuwait incubator babies was a big lie) is not a conspiracy fantasy, but one of cynical political strategy, a hallmark of Nixon and Neo-cons as we have come to learn.
"Rich, or middle class citizens use recreational drugs; and get busted for them also. However, not many middle class citizens decide to deal. They buy, but don't deal any weight."
I find no evidence in the prosecutions of Champaign County falling within the lines of this claim. I will note a few exceptions with the Vriners and Tatman's and the Newman Hall priest occasionally getting busted for their dealing, (but usually it goes the way of U of I students James and Paul McElwain, see N-G story: Brothers get jail time, probation in cocaine case, from Oct. 24, '12) and get sent away for short stints if not probation, but for the vast majority of the time, it's only the poor who get busted, and only the poor who get busted for dealing for the rich dealers, and only the poor who get sent to prison.
The "Oh gosh, a member of the Bar Association must first get paid $100/hr" for a better legal outcome, while true, is NOT FAIR and should not be tolerated if this be a system about justice and fairness for all. Every admission to the effect of "....tough titty, life ain't fair either..." is additional evidence toward a class action suit of 14th amendment violations to equal protections under the law. That anyone accepts having money as the facts of legal life and is okay with bribing prosecutors and judges for leniency, is complicit to corrupting our system. We should be demanding that our tax money be spent on having adequate legal representation in the public defender's office as part and parcel toward our own public safety. Public safety that also protects against wrongful convictions and disparate prosecutions.
Further, it's only the rich who can afford the necessary equipment to move that kind of drug weight across the borders and have the influence to sneak/bribe the volumes of drugs past security, and have the influence to get the banks to launder the money. Since the military occupation of Afghanistan in 2003, the world's poppy supply that makes heroin (and 90% of all the world's heroin is made from the crops in Afghanistan) the poppy crop has doubled. (A New York Times article in either 2007 or 2008 published this fact, and I couldn't find it for you today, Sid, I'll keep trying.) Heroin is stronger, cheaper, and more available than ever since we took over the country. The Taliban's biggest crime against U.S. interests was burning the poppy fields for religious reasons.
None of the drug dealers in Champaign County, or any currently locked up in the Illinois Department of Corrections; own boats, planes, helicopters, have border security connections, not even an international passport. These dealers you speak of are pawns to a larger, wealthier system. Jarecki's movie The House I Live In doesn't go into this enough, but American Drug War: The Last White Hope by Kevin Bloom does. These youtube videos might insult your intelligence, but these are high-quality documentaries that are easy to digest and give a good overview of the subjects.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mcFg9LneKE&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Same scenario for cocaine, since the coca leaf does not grow in the continental U.S. and only grows on the Andes Mountains of South America. The improbable strategy of supplying guns to drug dealers to catch drug cartels, The Fast and Furious program, is dubious at best and may be part of an overall strategy to keep drugs flowing into the U.S.
Nothing new, since Former drug kingpin Freeway Rick Ross, who spoke at Champaign's Douglass Center a couple years back, has testified numerous times that he was making crack from cocaine passing through Nicaragua. One of the security personnel at a Nicaragua airport has gone on camera to testify that policy at that time was to be some planes were left unchecked and were highly classified U.S.-connected planes better left alone.
The prison industry, the prosecution industry, the police industry need bodies to fill the dockets and prisons. Drug addicts are a lot easier to handle than spouse beaters, violent alcoholics, rapists, and pedophiles; criminals who would better qualify for the cages we've built. (Is it maybe because the racial and socio-economic demographics of those offenders would be quite different if we were to crack down on violence?)
While your analysis as to why poor people deal, especially those who live in urban areas where manufacturing jobs have disappeared, is correct; those in law enforcement will tell you, they don't bust the rich dealers, they bust the addicts who support their habits by dealing. Neill Franklin, Executive Director of L.E.A.P. (www.leap.cc), will be here at the Levis Faculty Center, Feb. 28 at 5:30 p.m. to explain if you would like to ask him. He's a former police chief and has experience into the matter. As many of us who ever went to college can testify, living on campus and especially the greek system, showed us where the drugs were. Why isn't U of I's new drug/street crimes unit conducting controlled buys out of the frat houses? Why isn't Rietz putting a U of I drug dealer or rapist behind bars for decades like the kids on the north end?
Nobody likes to believe in organized conspiracies, and who wants to believe those overseeing the government are crooks and killers? I don't. And it's good to question everything, including the conspiracy theories.
Having spent some time studying these drug issues, I cannot understand why heroin and cocaine are in every single city of America. I cannot understand the way we prosecute the drug war to only be against the poor, and brown people. I cannot understand how, if it's all about the health and welfare of the U.S. citizen, why Anheiser-Busch and Phillip Morris get to sell cigarettes and alcohol, given the damage reports caused by those two intoxicants. (Please don't insult my intelligence with the legal vs. illegal commentary or how prohibition didn't work in the 30's. Everybody knows that, so why are we in this current legal condition for the last 40 years? is the question.)
Investigative reporters, and investigative filmmakers are beginning to shed light on why we are spending zillions of dollars on imprisoning a morality/health issue that is hypocritical, profiting the rich, destroying the Bill of Rights, and locking up people we have no jobs for; all to NO EFFECT, in fact the opposite effect: same amount of drug use, increased availability and at a lower cost, and creating a permanent underclass population, more desperate and more likely to commit another crime (recidivism is at 50%) after their short incarceration. (Average time in the Illinois Department of Corrections is 1.9 years according the FY2011 annual DOC report.) The Drug War is pouring gasoline on the fires of poverty, destroying families and also creating a very angry new generation. Police are militarizing quickly for the imagined firefights in the future, for they know they are on a front line of pissing people off doing the dirty deeds the police are required to do on behalf of ignorant politicians and evil corporate-prison profiteers.
Consider this: we average over 2000 drug arrrests a year, prosecute over 1,200 drug cases a year in this county and spend, between all the county departments and the local police agencies, over $64,000,000 a year to have law enforcement and jails. You think the police union, after what we saw in the crybaby fight over losing a front desk clerk at the CPD, is going to tolerate losing that much business, if we were to eliminate drug cases from their responsibility? How would we fill the prisons if we couldn't revoke probations and paroles due to dirty drops? These laws were made to be broken and do get broken by everybody, but it's only the poor, unable to put up a legal fight, who get the enforcement.
Worse, drug prohibition has given rise to the new synthetic highs, like meth, X-tasy, continued use of unregulated LSD, and the like that, similar to coke and heroin, are extremely toxic.
Marijuana kills how many people a year? Heroin kills how many people a year? Now, compare those numbers to the number of people who die from falling off ladders, or car accidents, then compare that to number of deaths from Tobacco, and Alcohol. But you don't see the DEA raiding the downtown corporate headquarters of Altria, now do you?
This young man, who says it better than I do and has a theory why we are in the state we are in, and ought to give this speech to a Congressional hearing*:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=66OV_DkPBFQ
*note, obesity is the third leading cause of death, at about 300,000 a year, when he discusses the issue of Krispy Kream donuts.
Like I said; I don't see
Like I said; I don't see things as clearly as you do. I will avoid ladders, and Krispy Kream donuts now though. Sincerly, good luck with your endeavors.
Do you think that the newspapers give out the real identities of potential problem people to the authorities? You have me wondering now.
I'm not sure I understand
I'm not sure I understand your question. Do newspapers, like this one, give out the identities of people who write on this website, is that what you mean?
If the authorities were
If the authorities were wanting to identify potential trouble makers, it would be a good resource. At work; all e-mails were filtered by key words. If certain words, or phrases popped up; the e-mail history was viewed including those who received the e-mails. The same thing could easily be done for National Security.
I'm very curious to know what
I'm very curious to know what you mean by your comments. Who are the "potential trouble makers" and why? What does that mean? Are you a Bush Doctrine guy now, Sid?
Niet..........uhh... Naw. I
Niet..........uhh... Naw. I am just a conservative, moderate democrat. The "potential trouble makers" are the conspiracy believers on both the extreme left wing, and the extreme right wing. The people who preach revolution with violence. The ones who stockpile guns, and ammo. The ones who encourage armed militias taking their country back.
You, and I disagree politically; but we do not advocate armed rebellion. We do not preach hate; and at least, I am sane. (Just joking with you, blue.) I am not sure if a "Bush Doctrine guy", or an "Obama National Security guy" are that different. Both are aware of the rise in anti-governmental mad hatters. It is one thing to make angry anti-governmental statements; but it is something else making statements encouraging violence.
Sid, please show me where any
Sid, please show me where any commenter on this site, excluding mark taylor or mark taylor's ghost comments made in a form of what could vaguely be considered satire, made a comment encouraging anti-governmental violence.
When I asked you if you're a Bush Doctrine guy, I was more referring to the pre-emptive strike mentality you seem to want to employ on people just talking here on this site.
bluegrass; where did I say
bluegrass; where did I say that I wanted "pre-emptive strikes" on "people just talking here on this site"? Don't be so defensive. I was not referring to you. I understand what a "Bush Doctrine guy" is now. Your talking about someone who believes that it is necessary to remove a threat before the threat kills, or injures innocents. I assume that is for National Security purposes. It would have been great if the Aurora Colorado shooter, and perhaps the Newtown shooter would have had their comments checked out.
By the way; Mark Taylor does not make anti-governmental violence remarks except when imitating right winger comments. I do not find that a threat. I do agree that his remarks are vaguely considered satire with emphasis on the "vaguely".
Hey, is Hagel going to get confirmed? Hagel had nothing to do with Bengazi. He did make remarks about American interests not being the same as Israeli interests. What's with John McCain, and Trent Lott?
Pretty sure that sort of data
Pretty sure that sort of data mining IS already done.
Thank Goodness if it is
Thank Goodness if it is already being done. Americans eat more conspiracy theories than bread. When the asteroid hit Russia recently, many Russians were thinking that it was a U.S attack. Imagine what would have happened here with all of the conspiracy theorists. It would have been Dr. Strangelove in real life. Maybe, it's the flouride in the water?
"At some point in time; you
"At some point in time; you will realize that some of them are fantasies, and some of them are real.
Definitely an improvement here, some of them are real. Agreed.
Maybe you could define what "Tyrannical Government" is in your mind. While we don't have the jack boots driving through cul de sacs doing house to house searches, you do see gradual encroachments to personal privacy, and increased disregard to the Constitution and due process on the part of the local, state and Federal governments, yes? While I don't share Penteller's certain doom and gloom forecast quite yet, there has been disturbing trends where some of Penteller's dots have been properly connected.
I don't see you applying yourself at all to any of the points made in this thread, and in uncharacteristically rude fashion, you've been rather hostile toward Penteller without a single counter point to any of the many citations nor have you challenged his conclusions with counterpoints why there is nothing to dread in good 'ol America.
Another put-down again to the concept of "free to the public events," as if it made the speakers less credible, whereas $1000-a-plate fundraisers offer certain credibility? I encourage you to come to the events and hear a conspiracy that is real.
But do tell us what you consider a "conspiracy" and what is "tyranny", for maybe that's the problem and why you throw rocks at people discussing the disturbing trends in Law Enforcement.
"'Nice, white, polite middle class' people buy drugs also. Their kids do also."
Looking at the numbers of prosecutions compared to the cases handled by the public defenders office, and while it's true the nice, white, polite middle class do drugs as do their kids also; they don't get prosecuted and sent to prison for it. Wish you, Sid, were the state's attorney for this county, perhaps we would have some equality under the law (albiet, grossly harsh equality to be sure) if you were.
If you are going to do
If you are going to do something on the books that is illegal, you know what can happen if you are caught. Now; your complaining about people getting caught, and how they are treated.
Yes, marijuana should be legalized. A debate needs to happen over what drugs should be allowed legalization, and what ones should not. Yes, justice in America costs money. The more money you can pay equates to the more "justice" you will receive. Public defenders are swamped; and there are not enough of them. Is that the fault of "nice, white, polite middle class people"? I lost my guilt complex for things that are not, or were not my doing years ago. I am not guilty for slavery, or the Holocaust.
The last thing that I would describe as "Tyrannical Government" in the U.S. would be the McCarthy years persecuting citizens with leftist views. I think that you are marching on a crusade with good intentions; but being irrationale in your definitions of "conspiracies".
By the way; I have never attended "a plate fundraiser". I have attended "bring your own brown bag" discussions. I have thrown punches when they were interrupted also. My point on "free to the public events" is that most of them beg for an audience. The people who show up for the lecture usually already support the crusade. How many people show up? Count noses on Feb. 19th, and report back.
Oh.. thanks for endorsing me as becoming the state's attorney. Your right. There would be equality under the law; and it would be equally harsh for every offender. The same for rich, or poor. The book would be followed with no exceptions. You know what can happen if you are caught so no whining allowed.
Additional video evidence
Additional video evidence that suggest the Nazi-esque jack boot form of tyranny, or the obnoxious inquisitional form of tyranny during the McCarthy era has evolved into a subtle, hidden form of manipulation by unelected actors, done with the same amount of no accountability, no democracy and involves stealing the tax money, lying to the people, and running rough shod over the Congress, about as close to a bait-and-switch conspiracy as can be done on the public stage.
Penteller is not the only one who observes problems....though the one-paragraphers won't have the patience for it....
www.youtube.com/watch?v=TO7-GBRx1xM
For an even more subtle approach to how post-war America was created, add the Supreme Court, the bankers, the politicians, the real estate managers to the list of those who conspired to create this odd civilization we live in, a world stuck in an emotional kindegarten.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCPu8BF5khk
"Nazi-esque jack boot form of
"Nazi-esque jack boot form of tyranny", and "this odd civilization we live in, a world stuck in an emotional kindegarten" are phrases that John "Jack" Reed would have been proud of.
Why is it that all reference anymore is www.youtube.com? Youtube is a propagandist's paradise. "Uh.. I saw it on Youtube. It must be real!" Is this country evolving into a Twitter, Facebook, Youtube, Wikepedia world of revisionist, historical propaganda? Does anyone read creditable sources anymore? Read the recent biography: Eisenhower, the White House Years, for creditable views of the industrial military complex, the CIA, and the US interventions during those years. For goodness sake, read creditable sources.
There's some good stuff on
There's some good stuff on youtube, video clips of historical events and news reports. It's just buried under a lot of crap. Sometimes when my grandkids are talking about something in history I find a good clip that brings it to life for them. But they also know about the bad area of youtube. ick
It should be noted before
It should be noted before viewing the link below, that Champaign-Urbana, IL was ground zero in 2004 regarding the issue of videotaping police officers in the public way while they were performing their public duties in uniform. The courts have ruled that police officers, engaging in the public's business of enforcing their laws, have no reasonable expectation to privacy when every action and every word they utter while on the job is official government business. Revisions to the Illinois Eavesdropping statute have been made to accomodate a citizen's right to videotape and audio record officers on the job. The bill passed the Illinois House and is currently being held up from a vote in the Illinois Senate by a senator who presumably is in the pocket of the FOP.
As it stands now, Illinois statutes still make it illegal for citizens to audio record police officers without the officer's consent, subject to 4 to 15 years in the penitentiary.
Sid, mock a conspiracy theory if you wish, but this film shows what some of the citizenry experience, and what law Enforcement is trying to hide, though you would expect good officers have nothing to fear from accurate accounts of their actions. (You'll note there is one instance in this film where the officers are completely justified in using force.)
The problem of falsified police reports, as what started this thread from the June 5th, 2011 arrest of the jaywalker is a more frequent problem than any government agency is willing to admit. The distribution of the squad car video of the June 5th arrest is what caused the state's attorney to drop the Class 4 felony charges of resisting an arrest and causing an injury to an officer. The videotape clearly showed there was no way the arrestee could have broke Officer Brian Aschell's hand during his handcuffing. And yet,...police officers Patrick Simons and Aschell attempted to charge the arrestee with a class 4 felony because they know, as we all know, that when the rubber meets the road in court, an officer's word against a citizen's word is no contest. The FOP would like to keep it that way to hide their occasional abuse. I'll await Sid's mockery of this video footage as just another fabricated conspiracy story:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=101730743340005&set=vb.436110239776596&type=2&theater
Tapes of cops behaving badly
Tapes of cops behaving badly do not equate to a "tyrannical government" opposing it's citizens. Some cops have behaved badly from the inception of this country up to now. The government of the U.S.A. has not been a "tyrannical government" all that time. When was the last time in your opinion was the government of the United States "tyrannical" toward it's citizens? Please feel free to discuss the McCarthy years, FDR, J. Edgar Hoover, etc.... "Tyrannical governments" of the U.S.A. do not exist long. You could argue the War Between the States was over that; but that is really reaching. Your equating of my response to Pen as mockery of a conspiracy theory to cops behaving badly as a conspiracy is dribbling logic. Do you, Local Yocal, think that there is an existing New World Order? Do you think that the current U.S. government is planning on declaring a dictatorship? Do you think our government is a "tyrannical government"? Go ahead, and express yourself. However, do not provide Champaign cops behaving badly as a boogey man, national conspiracy. Your starting to sound like Pen/Buz if you do.
For those much too busy
For those much too busy chasing down every last News-Gazette web story and can't make it out from behind the computer screen, here is another documentary about possible "tyranny" the nice, white, polite middle class never have to worry about around here:
That's a two hour video. I
That's a two hour video. I can check out the 'hood and see people dealing and getting busted. I can also go to the rich neighborhoods and see the same things. If the same thing happens on both sides of town why is one tyranny and not the other?
In light of the booming
In light of the booming alcohol and cigarette industries, both places would be considered forms of tyranny, the government has no business in prohibiting and jailing citizens from recreational highs. However, you claim to see people getting busted in the rich neighborhoods?
I doubt it. The number of cases and the identities of those prosecuted reflect there is hardly any prosecution of the "rich neighborhoods," for drugs.
I would counter that you have
I would counter that you have a blind spot.
Blind to what?
Blind to what?
Local Yocal; By any chance,
Local Yocal; By any chance, did you grow up in one of those privileged neighborhoods? Were your parents middle class white collar, or blue collar? I am asking because I have come across people who wantabee, but neverwere. They have guilt feelings; but redirect them toward those of their background. You sound familiar. I agree with rsp. You seem to have a "blind spot".
"Nice, white, polite middle
"Nice, white, polite middle class" people buy drugs also. Their kids do also. Your on a crusade against government "tyranny". What are you doing about it? Congress makes, and changes the laws. Have you contacted your senators, and representatives? Do you think it is cool to alienate potential allies by calling them "white, polite middle class"? Where do you get your assumptions? Oh... I know the answer to that question. You heard it at one of the "free to the public" events. Pen/Buz will jump on the conspiracy wagon with you. Once the words "tyranny", "government", and "conspiracy" are uttered; they come running. I doubt that if your views were clearly communicated to them a mutual cause would result though.
Conspiracy nuts come in all shapes, sizes, genders, races, and levels of intelligence. Know what is real, and what is fantasy.
"Tapes of cops behaving badly
"Tapes of cops behaving badly do not equate to a 'tyrannical government' opposing it's citizens."
Behaving badly? Said like a man who has never had this happen to him. The day a cop wallops your skull with a baton and fires a round of searing pepper spray into your eyes, and you are body slammed onto a hood of a squad car, handcuffed and hauled to jail, a very high, unaffordable bond is set for your serious felonies you did not commit, and you have no adequate legal representation and you are wrongfully convicted and sent for way too long to sit in a prison cell, is the day you might feel your government is a little tyrannical. These badly behaving cops are part of a system that affords little to no redress for the grievance.
But using The Comfortable Sid Saltfork Line of Reasoning that says, "If it didn't happen to me, it doesn't exist," I can say with utter confidence that Michael Hogan and Lisa Troyer followed all civil service guidelines and no state worker ever had a pension coming. Those that claim otherwise are just jealous academic hacks who envy the successful and want the government dole to take care of them in their feeble old age. Tasty medicine you serve up, eh Sid?
How's about you go beyond your pithy one-paragraph ad hominem attacks and attend the following talks, free to the public:
Feb. 19, 11:00 a.m.- 1:30 p.m. Illini Union Rooms A,B,C, free to the public, James Kilgore and Aaron Ammons speaking on mass incarceration.
Feb. 20, 6:00-9:00 p.m. Illini Union Rooms A,B,C, Michelle Alexander, author of The New Jim Crow will speak about some government tyranny called, The Drug War, the tool that created mass incarceration.
Feb. 28, 5:30 p.m. Levis Faculty Center, Neill Franklin, Executive Director of L.E.A.P. (www.leap.cc) and Clifford Thornton, founder of Efficacy Now, (www.Efficacy-online.org)
Mar. 1, 5:30 p.m. Salem Baptist Church, Neill Franklin and Clifford Thornton will again accept debate on Sid Saltfork's fully reasoned rebuttals.
Here's some more video evidence, and maybe those that would look without prejudice, might want to investigate further into the entire two-hour film coming out this October.
But it's probably not real, because it's never happened to Sid Saltfork afterall.....
I am to believe that you were
I am to believe that you were a "truely innocent citizens" who may have been arrested by the police. You were batoned, tear gassed, slammed on the hood of a car, etc....... What did you do? What caused your arrest? Did that happen; or are you dramatizing a fantasy? Did you hear this story at one of the "free to the public" events?
Listen up. I came of age in the 60's. I know about demonstrations, and war from having been involved in both. I know police tactics, and demonstrator tactics from marching for a contract also. You sound like some bright eyed pilgrim getting your feet wet in Social Change 101. The police do what they are paid to do. You do what you choose to do. Trip on with your conspiracy theories for now. At some point in time; you will realize that some of them are fantasies, and some of them are real. "Mass incarceration", "government tyranny",.......... black heliocopters, New World Order, Mayan Calendar, Santa Claus.... Woo, woo....boogey man is coming.... You need to get out more. Socialize with some sane people for a while.
Wow.......! Now, the
Wow.......! Now, the Champaign Police Department has a conspiracy to shoot dogs! Bettter bunker up...; and please do not come out.
"Tyranny rising", "an undercurrent of distrust and hatred building", "a government gone rogue", and "operatives of the tyranny rising" sound impressive while looking into the mirror; but they are only fantasies. You know down deep that they are fantasies, dreams, untruths, and maybe voices. If you put yourself to doing something good for others, it would help you. Volunteer at the Humane Society, or Habitat Humanity. Get around others. Use no alcohol, or recreational drugs. Heck, go square dancing. Do something other than invent conspiracies, and read conspiracy websites.
I don't even know how you
I don't even know how you guys get through Penn/Buzz's walls of text.
Skim over them. If there are
Skim over them. If there are quotes don't read them, those are sometimes by sci-fi writers. Skip the links too, or you'll be there all day. By the time you find actual writing you aren't sure what the point is so then you just learn to read the other posts. Of course you have to wait until a few show up to make it worth your time.
The first paragraph rants
The first paragraph rants about conspiracy. The second paragraph rants about conspiracy. The third paragraph rants about conspiracy. It goes on, and on...... If no one responses, he writes paragraphs anyway. Sometimes, there are four l o n g comments over days only from him to himself. He used to post comments on the main daily news articles; but now, he posts comments here on the Discussion board.
Come on Pen. Post an article on the news articles. Post a comment on the Rodney Davis article of today. Show'em what you got.
Heck, I voted for Bill
Heck, I voted for Bill twice. I would have voted for him a third time if he could have ran again. Glad your physician with "aged insight" is a conspiracist like you. Please provide his name in your next comment. There is fine line for conspiracists between paranoia, and just plain nuts. My "venomous bait" is only rebuttal to the comments from the misguided, and deranged. We will be talking again. Buy some more tinfoil for your ball cap.
I guess Penteller doesn't get
I guess Penteller doesn't get jokes. Paranoid people are like that. Maybe he should switch doctors?
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