As all of the furor over pensions and healthcare are becoming an everyday subject, I have always found it hard to believe that anyone actually thinks any entity be it private or public would owe anyone anything when they stop working. (retire) Common sense would tell you that supporting people who contribute nothing anymore is just bad business and cannot continue forever.
Hear's something to think about. There was a report on the nursing home given the other night to the county board. The big public aid revamp that was going to save money for the state? Didn't save any. They are trying gimmicks. Meanwhile people can't get needed medicine. They are going to the er. That costs more. They could save millions by treating crack and cocaine the same. Institute the early release program and reduce overcrowding in the prisons. Just those would probably allow them to close a prison but they are too worried about the political liability. I called my doctor's office about getting paperwork filed so I could go over the 4 prescription limit. The response I got? "Let's try to get you under 4 drugs". The nurse wanted to override my doctor so she wouldn't have to do the form. I've been without my meds for five days now. She got angry when I said I was hoping to still eat this month. They have politicians handling health care. And prisons. And everything else. And they aren't being smart enough to get outside help that's qualified.
Well, you just proved my point about the animosity toward public employees. Public employees wages are not any higher than employees with the same qualifications in the private sector. They receive lower wages with the benefits making up the difference. Sure, you will cherry pick some job as an example. It is always some truck driver, lawn maintenance, etc that you will pick. How about picking a job that requires a college degree, or special occupational skill to compare? How about telling the truth about the average public employee's pension?
Your "taxed to death"; and your kids "nickle'd and dime'd" you to death? Sounds like a bitter, all for me, cheapskate to me. I bet your kids love coming to see you for Thanksgiving. Listening to the whining, and complaining while counting down the time until they leave. What a terrible thing to say about your kids.....
Again with the animosity...
'repeat a lie often enough and soon people will believe it's the truth.' - Joseph Goebbels (Hitler's propaganda minister)
Can you cite your sources for your statement that 'Public employees wages are not any higher than employees with the same qualifications in the private sector?'
...the average State of Illinois state employee is paid $69,500, versus $56,500 for the equivalent job in the private sector.
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/07/20/think-thank-illinois-public-pay-s...
Both headstone captions were quoted from comedy acts. Sorry...
Next?
I've previously stated my opinion that the courts will deem those 'promises' legally binding. However, if the State of Illinois itself declares bankrupcy (is that even possible?)...well, that would be a horse of a different color indeed. I assume that, like corporations, the State government wouldn't be dissolved, it's finances would be restructured. Union contracts, along with present wage and benefit packages would be renegotiated, and yes, present pension benefits would also be subject to 'down-sizing.' Let me emphasize that this is all hypothetical though.
DLE, in your above post you make several references that lead me to believe that you think that union contracts are similiar to handshake deals between two gentlemen. 'Promise'...'dishonor'...'cheat'...'deadbeats'...'welch'. The 'contract' is between the state employees and the entity of our State government which, again like corporations, does not make moral choices regarding promises, dishonor, etc. The Governor and legislatures do make those choices and the courts 'judge' those choices. As their employers, voters also pass their own judgements at the ballot box.
I do agree with your post on another thread that corporations should be banned from making political contributions. How about banning government employee unions also? What have they ever done for me and other taxpayers? Let's stop the madness and greed now, and sweep government employee unions into the dustbin of history.
Bob, I don't know what your career is/was, but unless it was farming (which now comprises less than 2% of the population) you were probably in the manufacturing or service sector of our economy. Our nation evolved from an agrarian economy to an industrial and now a service economy. During WWII, Allied forces destroyed the manufacturing capabilty of Eastern powers in response to them bombing the crap out of Western Europe's manufacturing centers. When the dust settled, the US was the only country left untouched, which enabled our manufacturers to be the producers for the world. We became the superpower with the largest middle class in the world because we were the only ones who could mass-produce anything the other nations needed and wanted.
Labor unions were a thorn in the corporations' sides, but as long as they had a monopoly filling the needs of the world, the cost of labor, which produced the largest middle-class in the history of the world, was bearable. As the individual labor unions competed for members, and their dues, they began pushing into the government sector. Soon enough, government employees started their own unions. As long as tax receipts remained relatively large, those unions were also affordable.
I should note here that when a former mayor of New York City was in danger of not being re-elected, one of his aides pointed out that city union employees were a sizable voting bloc, the mayor promised them the power of collective bargaining. The political move worked and he was re-elected. Political leaders around the nation noticed thiis too and began making the same promise to their city employees. Of course they were either retired or moved on when health-care costs and pensions came due. That was someone else's headache then.
But as a reply to your wonderment at why anyone who doesn't actually do anything, and I assume that you're speaking of retired people, feel that they're entitled to a pension and healthcare, there was a time in the not-to-distant past when there were more employees needed to produce widgets than there were people able and willing to make them. Labor unions used their power of collective bargaining to get companies to promise healthcare benefits and pensions. The government employee unions fell in line lockstep with them.
As the years passed, different countries slowly started to develop their own manufacturing capabilities. I'll never forget when Japanese transister pocket radios came to America. They were handy and cheap. So cheap that if one quit working you just threw it away and bought another one. Then came the foreign cars and motorcycles. The succss of all these foreign-made goods was mainly due to their low-cost, which was made possible because of the cheap labor used to produce all of these widgits.
A CEO is responsible only to the stockholders of his company. If they're not happy, he could lose his job. If he makes them happy, he could get a bonus. He can only make them happy if he either lowers costs to make the widgits or charges more for them. Raising the price in the face of cheap imports is not an option. He can lower costs by asking labor unions for concessions or moving his widgit factory to a country with cheap labor. We know how that went...
Such is not the case with government unions however. You can't move city hall to Mexico. And it must be difficult for those in government unions to admit that they are now part of the problem even after it's plainly obvious. A teacher or cop or social worker will repeat over and over that they are serving the people. But when it's time to negotiate a labor contract, then it's 'us vs. them.' Hence, they are not teachers, cops, or social workers,...they are union brothers and sisters, one for all and all for one.
Work twenty years and receive health-care and a pension for thirty years? Sorry, does not compute...I've worked over 27 years for my employer and have six more to go before I can retire,...IF Medicare is still available. Otherwise I'll probably die of old age on the job..
Quote from Sid on another thread: '...Who will be blamed when the public employees no longer have anything to be stolen? Taxes will be raised after there is nothing more to steal from the people who earned it....' Welcome to my world. The biggest employer in the world is government. You're experiencing what I went through thirty years ago. In case you haven't noticed, while your employer was hiring like mad, factories (those buildings where guys and gals earned money to pay taxes to hire more government employees) were shutting their doors. Can you understand why I'm not sympathetic?
And this one from Utowner: 'Because we kept our side of the bargain and worked for LOW wages (remember, not all of us are high earners here, don't buy all of the propaganda) for this benefit...' Oh, c'mon man! Can you be more specific? What was this LOW wage? I really find this hard to believe. Perhaps you're not familiar with wages in the private sector. I have two friends that previously worked where I do. One got hired on at the U of I at twice what he was making and one got hired by the county for more money. The Danville Commercial-News recently printed the wages of employees in the Streets Department...WOW! Not LOW...
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