LOVE IT or LEAVE IT!

It is a statement so many times heard – especially from those who have served.

However …

As a member of America’s armed forces, your job is to never question authority.
Your duty as an American citizen is to regularly question and challenge the powers of government, so as to ensure the liberties of future generations.

So why is it - that so many who dutifully performed the first are found treasonous in the latter?

"Here in America we are descended in blood and in spirit from revolutionaries and rebels- men and women who dared to dissent from accepted doctrine. As their heirs, may we never confuse honest dissent with disloyal subversion." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

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Penteller wrote on September 30, 2012 at 4:09 pm

Sid,"Recent history is the

Sid,

"Recent history is the record of a vast conspiracy to impose one level of mechanical consciousness on mankind." -- Allen Ginsberg

There’s evidence that the Czar “approved” the murder of protesters? Not sure that’s a defendable statement. Yes he had sent troops to St. Petersburg because of the unrest that the money men’s funding had created through the likes of Lenin and Stalin. It was a Communist movement that eventually resulted in tens of millions being butchered and the country being sent back into a dark age, to eventually emerge as a threat to other nations, which was the plan.

Like many of European aristocracies and even America, Russia was being challenged by the socialist movement, created by Carl Marx, a financial benefactor of the powers who keep man in turmoil by pitting him against each other on a regular basis. Thus making money from the ongoing confrontations they create.

It can easily be said that the Czar was a “benevolent” man - for what other Monarch of his era would banish, rather than execute, those who were openly promoting and organizing the Monarchy’s destruction. He could have just as easily executed them and probably saved his realm, but instead choose a more “Christian” way of dealing with the issue.

You are correct, it was Lenin returning along with over 30 of his followers and staff across a war zone, on an armored train, protected by German troops, so as to assure Lenin’s return to St. Petersburg. An interesting affair, considering that Germany and Russia were at war with each other at the time.

And who creates as you said, the “rival economic interests?” The tens, if not hundreds of millions of dollars provided to the Russian revolution by the money men, given to the most brutal and animal natured creatures, assured the Czars downfall and the bogie man that Russian became. Ultimately creating entire permanent industries built upon death and destruction, with endless wars of profitability, eventually allowing for the complete corruption of Americas political and social systems.

Conflict among nations for economic gain is a 300 year old game, created by and maintained through, manipulative central banking that controls the world’s money. By pitting nation against nation, not only do you assure continued profits through the military industrial complex, but you also have ready made thugs to “collect” on the debts – other nations.

Just look at Europe and for that matter, all over the world right now, how they are jumping through hoops to bail each other out, just to keep from having major conflicts. Our difficulties with China, our groveling to the private corporation The Federal Reserve to give us more borrowed money to fix what they created, while properties across the country are being bought up by a select few at fire sale prices.

Man, talk about dragging front and center the 800lb gorilla in the room!

You are spot on about much of the final issues you raised. However, there is a caveat that needs mentioned. Besides penning about a 1000 signing statements (unprecedented in Presidential history), George the W Bush also signed an agreement with Israel to back up any war they get into. An automatic authorization that nearly happened several months back and was only thwarted when a top Pentagon general publicly stated he would not authorize such a move. I’m sure he’s been relieved of duty or died in some accident by now, like all of the key players in the Bin Laden kabuki production.

As for Iran and oil, the price of oil will be the least of our problems if folks start shooting. Russia has reconstituted some old weapons systems and upgraded them with high tech devices that are incredibly lethal, like 300mph torpedoes and 2500mph cruise missile’s. Just watch the evening news and you see their “old” big bombers within our costal airspace and subs within the gulf – shooting range.

As for Obama, he’s going to be re-elected because he’s a “useful” tool for Israel. One of their prime ministers once said, “If you want to destroy us (Israel), just leave us alone”. This is why Israel constantly plays the victim, getting the US to spend more on Israel’s defense than the citizens of Israel do, meanwhile their technicians and services are highly integrated into many nations defense and social infrastructures, all the while maintaining a significant nuclear weapons system.

Romney is too gung ho Israel, and although he epitomizes the belief most fundamentalist Christians have, that Israel must be given anything it wants so our God will come back, it is something that long term does not serve Israel well, although out of chaos comes order. Which is why the trigger will be pulled, but not by Iran, since it’s against their religion to launch a first strike, but once slapped will throw everyone and everything into the fray.

And speaking of order and influence and military industrialization that leads to Fascism - how about that ERIC. The secretive organization that nationwide coordinates and coaches legislatures in authoring and passing bills that are Corporate friendly, such as restricting the citizen rights to challenge corporate control of our lives.

Love It or Leave It
Love what? And Leave Where?
It’s a world wide cesspool only growing deeper.

So in none of this you don’t see a pattern, no multi-generational constancies, no emerging and singular underlying reasoning to the repeated types of conflicts for the same exact reasons? No consistencies in the facts we have both presented?

P.S. Thanks for the wonderful replies! It’s been a long time since we’ve had such a distinguished author aboard the digital time ship.

Penteller wrote on September 25, 2012 at 5:09 pm

Sid,Great question!There is a

Sid,

Great question!

There is a specific and contiguous group of people behind nearly every war over the last 300 years, who have demonstrated just how easily manipulated societies are in going to war for the profit of the few.

At the turn of the last century, Russia had surpassed America in oil production and overseas sales, fueling rapid growth in their manufacturing powers. The influence of Rasputin on the Russian Czar, had lead him to reform not only Russia’s political system to a more democratic model, but had led him to institute land reform creating the highest level of Peasant ownership in Russian history.

Folks like the Rockefellers, Getty, Rothschild’s and other industrialists decided to change this as Russia was becoming to successful. So they funded the Bolshevik revolution. The Czar, being the benevolent person that he was, instead of executing Khrushchev, Stalin and Lenin, exiled them.

After the well funded Bolshevik’s starved millions of the Peasant population who supported the Czar to death, they then removed the Czar from office. Then the German Government escorted one of the 3 (can’t remember which one), from Spain across Europe during WW1 in an armored train, to assure his safe arrival back in Russia.

Meanwhile Hitler is in the trenches of that war polishing his credentials, and after the war was befriended by the same cabal of people who overthrew the Czar. Hitler was then funded and supported by the same group that starts all wars, who were planning their next one.

These same folks are now in power in this country and planning their next war that dovetails into the current war - the nuclear war we all were told about over and over again this last week. Didn’t you get the memo? It was on the evening news and in the papers every day.

No conspiracies there do you think?

Sid Saltfork wrote on September 25, 2012 at 8:09 pm

Vladmir Ilych Lenin was

Vladmir Ilych Lenin was allowed to travel from Switzerland across Germany to St. Petersburg by the Kaiser's German government after riots broke out in Russia.  The Czar was not a "benevolent" fellow.  He was out of touch with the realities in Russia.  He had approved the massacre of the demonstrators in St. Petersburg in 1905 before World War I started. 

Most wars are the result of rival ecomonic interests.  Bankers, and industrialists benefit financially from wars; but they do not always start them.  Japan needed oil, and other natural resources.  Roosevelt put an oil embargo on them due to their encroachment on American, and British interests in southeast Asia, and China.  Japan committed a presumptive strike on Pearl Harbor.  Since Hitler had signed a pact with Japan, he was required to declare war on the U.S.  He regretted being required to make the the declaration according to Goring.  Once war was declared on the U.S.; Roosevelt could have the U.S. enter the war, and the increased military budget and industrial production brought the U.S. out of the Depression.  It makes for great conspiracy theory; but Fascism, and Imperialism had to be stopped.  

The current talk of nuclear war is talk.  The talker is Israel.  Iran is not going to launch a one bomb attack on Israel.  Israel would launch an attack on Iran if it thought the U.S. would back it up.  Iran has the muscle to disrupt the oil shipping through the Persian Gulf.  If that happened, oil prices would soar.  This country, and the world would enter a second Great Depression.  The President did not meet with the foriegn heads of state today when he gave his U.N. speech.  If he met with any of them, he would have had to meet with the prime minister of Israel also.  The President dished Iran today; but he did not praise Israel even in an election year.  Israel needs to be diplomatically put in it's place.  The prime minister has stuck his nose in U.S. politics during an election year.  That does not benefit either U.S. political party.  It only benefits Israel.  Wars can be avoided by diplomacy.  Wars can be started by economic interests; but they can be prevented by economic interests also.  Conspiracy theories abound; but they are hard to prove if one wants proof.  

Penteller wrote on September 09, 2012 at 11:09 am

I can understand how my

I can understand how my father’s generation could so easily lock-step with our political leaders, who lead them into a world wide slaughter, created and orchestrated by the banker/industrialist cabal that to this day has only grown stronger.

A generation held captive through limited alternative information services. A generation who were trained to be obedient and never question leadership, as every phase of life was regulated and maintained by the WWII machine. An experience thrust upon them through guile and manipulation like all previous wars.
http://www.mtgriffith.com/pearlharbor/index.php?cID=1
Also, read the book “The Unseen Hand”.

Conversely you would think the newer generations would be more savvy to the propaganda of the masters falsehoods, yet they also seem to fall under the spell of the programming, never looking up or questioning what they are told. Never even paying attention or caring when the recent lies that continue to destroy millions, are revealed by “official” media.
 http://fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/bbc-now-admits-al-qaeda-never-existed/20810/

But then I suppose it is hard wired into our DNA for people to be in love with ignorance, that warm and happy place where all you have to do is believe and do as you’re told. Thus allowing every new generation to snuggle into the cocoon of ignorant conformity and be snatched away by the purveyors of consumed flesh, who profit handsomely from forever wars.

"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto their leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar."

 

shapemaster wrote on December 09, 2012 at 1:12 pm
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"Beware the leader who bangs

"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war.......".

I agree and we all watched George W. Bush do this with Iraq and now I fear Mr. Obama is doing it with Iran and Syria and of course we had boots on the ground in Libya.

Read the book "Who got what out of the war in Iraq, Nothing for the Nation", by former congressman Hostettler of Indiana.  He served for 4 terms and during the 9/11 time period and highly questioned our going in to invade Iraq.  He was right.  

http://www.amazon.com/Nothing-Nation-Who-What-Iraq/dp/0980058805

For now I am a registered Republican but soon will be registered as either Constinution party or Independent.  I can not stand the Democrats and will never support their platform however the GOP is beginning to really piss me off, especially the GOP in Illinois.  We can't seem to win the good races that count.

I say all that to make note that while I supported George W. Bush I would not do so if I could do it all over again simply because of Iraq and what you see happening after 9/11/

 

While some here may not think there is a conspiriacy, I believe it has been over one hundred years in the making and a darn good plan in deed. They are very patient.

 

It is the bankers and the globalist Cabal who wants this to occur.

 

One day soon, one day soon, they will have their war and it will be a doozy.   I only hope I'm not around to see that one.  WW III is on their list of things to accomplish and to what end I do not know but a global governement will be just one of the attrocities and the liberals who are loving socialism and Marx now will be running for their lives then as these evil men will come for all not just for us conservatives.

buzorro wrote on December 09, 2012 at 4:12 pm

Reject both the Repubs and

Reject both the Repubs and the Dems, they both serve the same master, and it ain't us.

Sid Saltfork wrote on December 09, 2012 at 4:12 pm

Shapemaster;  It is

Shapemaster;  It is interesting that you choose to comment on my comment of Sept. rather than at the end of the comments.  Your supposedly new in commenting.  I have not seen any of your comments except for three Discussion Forum articles which very few read.  Your comment contents, and style are familiar.  I have found myself arguing with deceptive people with simpleton views.  I will let you, and Pen work out the problems with America to yourselves on your exclusive Discussion Forum.  Have fun with the treehouse club Pen. 

buzorro wrote on December 09, 2012 at 4:12 pm

'...except for three

'...except for three Discussion Forum articles which very few read...' - SS

Oh?  So you have the ability to know that?  Man, those are some kinda magic meds...

 

Sid Saltfork wrote on September 25, 2012 at 1:09 pm

What was the alternative to

What was the alternative to World War II?  Yes; bankers, and industrialists made fortunes from World War II.  In the case of IBM, Standard Oil, Ford, ITT, and others; they made money from both sides involved in World War II.  What was the alternative though?  Fascism, and Imperialism; or some semblence of Democracy?  The Iraq Wars, and Afganistan were other matters though.

buzorro wrote on December 09, 2012 at 4:12 pm

You forgot to mention then

You forgot to mention then Sen. Prescott Bush (yep, the daddy of George H W and grand-daddy of George) who was censured by the Senate for giving aid to Hitler...after we had declared war on Nazi Germany.  I'm sure you already knew that, just forgot.  Time to defrag the gray matter, SS.

buzorro wrote on September 08, 2012 at 11:09 am

To announce that there must

To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, right or wrong - is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. -  Teddy Roosevelt

 

Of course, post-9-11 and the passage of the Patriot Act, it is now just the opposite.  What's wrong with this picture?