Police arrest four, seek another, in holdup in Urbana
URBANA — Quick action by Urbana patrol officers led to the arrests of four young men for the holdup of a man on a city street in southeast Urbana Wednesday night. Police are looking for a fifth.
Sgt. Dan Morgan said about 10:30 p.m., a 48-year-old man who lives in the apartment complex in the 1700 block of East Florida Avenue reported he was walking on the sidewalk when he was approached by a group of men.
One put a gun to his temple and ordered him to hand over cash. When the victim said he didn't have any, the robber reached in the man's pocket, pulled out $9, then ordered the man to walk away.
The man complied but then turned back to see where the group was headed. One of the group spied him and yelled "shoot him," Morgan said, then scattered, running in different directions. No shots were fired.
Within minutes of receiving the call of the holdup, Morgan said, Officer Jay Loschen had stopped three men matching the general description in the 1200 lock of East Florida Avenue. Two of them stayed with Loschen while a third ran.
As Loschen was talking to the two who remained, he saw a man "leap" from a car on Linden Drive, a short street just off Florida to the north, and run. The car had been reported stolen in a burglary in Peoria on Sept. 9.
Sgt. Kary Keleher located one of the other two men in the 1300 block of East Florida while Officer Matt Mecum found a fourth in the 1100 block of Pennsylvania Avenue.
Arrested for armed robbery were David Dalton, 22, of the 200 block of East Hill Street, Champaign; Terry Moore, 24, of the 2000 block of South Philo Road, Urbana; Davon Rodgers, 20, of the 1000 block of South Lierman Avenue, Urbana; and a 15-year-old male from Champaign.
Morgan said the four gave statements to police "variously implicating each other" in the crime and said there was a fifth man who had the gun. He has not been located.
The state's attorney's office was reviewing reports this morning for appropriate charges.
This is why general descriptions matter:
"Within minutes of receiving the call of the holdup, Morgan said, Officer Jay Loschen had stopped three men matching the general description.."
But, we do not get to know this information. Maybe it is short white kids in red beanies? Maybe it is tall black kids wearing matching pink jackets. Why don't you tell us?
It appears that another NG article is hiding this obviously valuable information from us. Why are you protecting the guilty?
you do realize this crime happened 12 hours before the article was posted. So now a general description, "White kid wearing a read beanie" probably is no good as the suspect has more then likely changed and/or possibly left the area. However, the general description probably wasnt some odd mismatched one like you indicated, So now, putting out a description such as "black/white male young 20s, 6ft tall, 180 lbs, jeans, hooded jacket" would lead to thousands of possible leads as who knows how many young men are walking around matching that description in the CU area.
lio
Now 10 minutes after the crime happened, there are going to be very few people in the area at 10:30pm that match that description.
Everytime there is a crime someone gets on to comment that the description wasnt given. Well the reason is, because the crime is 12-18 hours old and by giving a general description would lead to hundreds if not thousands of matches because the search area is no longer isolated to the area of the crime but the whole city. As obviously if a crime is commited on Florida Ave in Urbana, you dont have to worry about them being on N. Mattis in Champaign 5-10 minutes later, but 12 hours later, who knows if that person on N. Mattis matching the description is the suspect.
Somewhat, you have a good point, but not entirely.
Let's say that this group of thugs stopped in a convienience store 10 minutes prior to this crime for beer or soft drinks. A better description might lead the store clerk that waited on them to say, "Hey, I think that group was in here last night about that time." Then the store could look back at its video system, verify the information, and turn a copy of the video over to the police department. The police might be able to recognize the faces of some offenders just by looking at them. At the very least, the police could then show pictures to the victim, ask if this is the group, and if this is the man carrying the gun.
Then the police would have an face to put out there for the news, or to other police agencies to try to track this violent offender down.
Had they captured all of the group, then you are right, I don't care what they looked like, but if there is still someone on the loose, then, without giving out something that would jeopardize their case, it would be a good idea to keep the public informed.
Knowledge is power, and the police can use all of our help.
Yes.. I want to make them harder to identify. OR, I am using reasoning and logic. I am sure if you want to go ask the 20,000 or so people or so that would match a general description of young male, late teens/early 20s, 5'9"-6'3", medium build (or whatever it was) in the greater CU (assuming the person is still even in the CU area).
AND, since they are already criminals in your mind you would probably agree with Mollys post. But I am sure about 99% of the attornies in this country would be more then willing to defend a person, if the only evidence you have of them is "he was spotted with these other people we have arrested at a store earlier today" -- 1. even if that is true, they will still need to have some evidence to arrest him at this point, the others were arrested because they were found in close proximity to the location of the crime and matched the identity soon after the crime was filed.
Now you have a guy that it obviously not near the location of the crime, we are 17 hours later after the crime was committed and nobody has snitched on him. So its not like the police even if he was spotted on a camera 10 minutes before the crime (assuming the camera didnt catch the crime) with the others, they can use that to arrest him.. they could use it as evidence in a trial, but that alone couldnt be used to arrest him.
So. really knowing the description isnt going to do any civilian any good. You might think it will protect you, but it wont, unless you are going to walk around a campus town being afraid of every young adult you see. The best thing people can do is let the police do their job without interfering because every minute they are on the phone talking to you about some John Doe you feel matches the description is a minute they are wasting catching the person they are actually after.
this is a good point, I will give you that. It is a catch 22 really because you dont have anything other then a general description meaning probably no body markings, just simple guess in height, age, and weight. I am sure the the police will investigate it and do their job But think about the area you are in. Most of these men were in the early 20s, you are right there near campus. How many men are in the early 20s/late teens. You cant go question all of them that match a general description.
Although I agree with what you said, by not putting it up here, you are keeping useless and false tips from coming in from citizens that thing they saw a 21 year old wearing jeans and a hoody or whatever the description is.
Bremax, both you and the other people who reflexively post these sorts of comments like Pavlov's dog every time a story like this pops up...don't you get tired of being so wrong about this so consistently?
Besides the reasons tigersky gave, sometimes descriptions are incomplete. Sometimes the victim refuses to give a description of the offender. I can go on.
Anyways, presented below are just a few of the recent stories where the race of the offender (all African-Americans) is mentioned. Read them all, and we will await your apology to both the News-Gazette and the readers of this thread for your ignorance.
http://www.news-gazette.com/news/courts-police-and-fire/2011-09-14/polic...
http://www.news-gazette.com/news/courts-police-and-fire/2011-09-02/champ...
http://www.news-gazette.com/news/courts-police-and-fire/2011-08-21/ui-po...
http://www.news-gazette.com/news/courts-police-and-fire/2011-08-10/cab-r...
http://www.news-gazette.com/news/courts-police-and-fire/2011-06-07/polic...
http://www.news-gazette.com/news/courts-police-and-fire/2010-12-27/help-...
http://www.news-gazette.com/news/courts-police-and-fire/2011-08-09/danvi...
http://www.news-gazette.com/news/courts-police-and-fire/2011-05-13/ui-po...
http://www.news-gazette.com/news/courts-police-and-fire/2011-02-15/autho...
http://www.news-gazette.com/news/courts-police-and-fire/2011-01-24/crime...
first off, im a white male in my mid 20s that grew up in a town with 1 black woman and 6 Mexicans, everyone else was "just like me" as you would say, so your "racist fight" comment really showed some ignorance there. I dont think race has anything to do with it. CU is big enough you have enough people of every race, so i dont know where you live, or what you believe, but you cant just be like:
"it was dat der (insert race here) who robbed dem people. They dah only (insert race here) livin is dis her town, hadda been dem"
Its the 21st century.. but the race card aside and start looking at people as equals for crying out loud
ahh good point, so now we have to ask ourselves as a society:
If believing all races should be treated equal, are we being racist by acknowledging that there are in fact different races not being treated equal? As the very definition of "racisim' is believing that their is a race above that of all others
If this is the case, I have to say yes bremax, I am a racist, I acknowledge there are different races, but firmly believe we should all be treated equal. So there you have it, I could be a white racist through the very definition of racism.
Oh bremax, bravo to you for bringing this philosophical question to light so we can all reflect on your infinite wisdom the white people can be racist too
Yes, I'm glad to see that you understand and agree. It is racist to treat people differently based on the color of their skin.
Racist:
Asians being penalized and blacks being promoted by affirmative action. Whites are subject to hate crime prosecution, despite the fact that blacks commit violent acts against whites ate a far higher rate than whites attack blacks. "Colored Only" drinking fountains. Blacks pushed into higher rate adjustable rate mortgages. Texas imposing the death penalty on blacks at a higher rate than whites for identical crimes.
Not racist:
Wanting to know the description of a recently violent person who is currently out roaming the streets.
So, the fact that you frame affirmative action and "whites subject to higher hate crime persecution" as being on the same plane as colored only fountains and higher rates of execution...you really are framing the opposing argument all by yourself.
What do I think is really going on with all these constant and inaccurate complaints about the lack of reporting on the race of suspects? It's not overt racism, or really racism in general in regards to the technical definition of racism. What it really is is a comical attempt, made by white people who think that too much is made of the problems facing black people, to minimize these concerns by manufacturing their own evidence of "racism" committed against white people. As the comments by yourself and by others on this site have demonstrated, they have lumped overly sensitive political correctness regarding black people into this net as well. Let's turn this into a spitting contest of who gets discriminated against more? Hey, we think you play the victim card too much, so our response is to try to play the victim card too!
The posts I have seen on this website since I started reading the comment sections make me very skeptical that it is only a principled commitment to public safety that drives all these "why isn't the race mentioned?" comments. From the assumption that many people make that any crime involving blacks must be somehow connected to Chicago or Cabrini Green thugs coming down here and ruining our peaceful little city, to little gems like this thread: http://www.news-gazette.com/forum/2011-03-06/why-cant-police-stop-jaywal... , I have seen more than enough evidence that a lot of the commenters on these threads have some very, um, interesting perspectives on race.
And by the way, I'm white, whatever it matters.
I taught those kids from Robert Taylor and Cabrini. These young men are not your average downstate 'banger. They are pro! Their behavior and special needs have disrupted schools and students in CU and all surrounding rural areas: Danville and Rantoul are suffering horrifically. There is no denying that. It is factual. It also doesn't take a student with an average UIUC mental capacity to know that campus is unsafe; especially between 0100-0400; doesn't matter the night. That is when my students liked to strike. Their target was voiced by THEM as small built people; particularly Asian: I was told they are able to score more cash from Asians.... Second fave target: as voiced by THEM: skinny drunk 20 somethings: always good for a phone and maybe lucky enough to get some other techno or even a cool jacket. They liked bikes (stolen): quick getaway. Firearms? Not a prob! Brought em down from the Sout 'Side. Their second fave haunt? Section 8 Housing in Danville. For settling scores. There is no fool like the fool with eyes glued shut to the the objective facts. One way to get objective facts is to spend six hours a day with 12 former Cabrini Green 20 year old eight-graders.....
I do not deny that plenty of the kids who were raised in Cabrini Green are violent and dangerous. I also do not deny that SOME of the crimes committed down here are by people who originated from Cabrini Green. I agree that it was patently irresponsible of downstate communities to openly seek former Cabrini Green residents, as some local communities here did when Cabrini Green closed.
What I was referring to is a pattern of commenters on this website who seem to always blame Cabrini Green or Chicago if the perpetrator of a crime is black. Just one example I can provide is the murder at Bradley and McKinley a few months ago. Several commenters blamed Cabrini Green, but it turned out the murderer was a native of Champaign and went to Unit 4 schools.
Finally, campus can be a dangerous place, but it isn't as bad as you and others say it is. I am a fairly small-built white guy and I work on campus, including late nights, and very rarely have I ever felt threatened. If you stay in pairs or groups and/or stay in well-lit areas you should be just fine. I often do neither and I still feel safe. Usually it just takes a little common sense. Most of the people who are attacked on campus are advertising themselves as targets by stumbling around stone-drunk alone or in small groups of other extremely drunk individuals, often while being loud and belligerent.
Regardless of this list you've compiled, any regular reader of the N-G and the comment site over the past couple of years knows that until recently the paper had a dysfunctional policy on reporting the race of suspects (that is, not reporting it) in unsolved crimes. To its credit the paper seems to have reversed that policy. It may have flaws -- don't we all -- but the N-G does listen to its critics, which is no small deal.
I know it was the paper's decision because you can actually find news releases on the websites for Champaign PD, Urbana PD, and University PD, and on numerous occasions when the N-G omitted race -- every time I checked, actually -- the police had reported the race of the suspect before the story was published. The police are not obligated to issue press releases. They do it because they think it might help solve crime, and they think including race will help.
The description of the three men stopped by Officer Loschen is irrelevant, they were arrested and the NG provided names, ages, and addresses. The fourth arrested is neither named nor described as they are a minor. That seems more newsworthy than the police apprehended three "short white kids in red beanies." I see no obvious value in what they were wearing. What makes you think that the victim was able to provide a description of ALL five of the suspects?
If the concern is that the newspaper didn't publish the description of the one suspect still on the loose, the real blame for this person remaining free is with the other apprehended suspects. They do know who it is who had the gun, and they are probably refusing to reveal this information to the police. That's the state of thug culture nowadays: no snitching.
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