Champaign officer fires gun at fleeing vehicle's wheel; man arrested

CHAMPAIGN — While responding to a report of a domestic dispute, a Champaign police officer fired his gun at a car’s tire Tuesday afternoon. No one was injured by the gunfire, and one man was arrested for home invasion.

According to a press release from the Champaign Police Department on Tuesday night, an officer was called at 4:14 p.m. to the 200 block of West Columbia Street to respond to a domestic disturbance.

A man was breaking a window and attempting to pull a woman from a second-floor window, police said. During the incident, another man attempted to defend the woman.

When the officer arrived, he encountered two men in an alley, one of whom was using a crowbar to break a vehicle window. Both men fled in the vehicle.

According to a witness, the driver aggressively backed the vehicle toward the officer.

“Preliminary information indicates that the officer, who was standing near the fleeing vehicle, fired his duty weapon at one of the tires,” the press release said.

The vehicle drove off and was later found near Prospect Avenue and Washington Street, having “caused damage to a fire hydrant,” police said.

At 4:41 p.m., the men in the vehicle were found in the 800 block of Church Street. One of the men was later released without charges.

But the second man, Michael Glover, 45, of Charleston, was arrested for home invasion and taken to Carle Foundation Hospital in Urbana to be treated for minor injuries. He was in the Champaign County Jail on Wednesday morning.

The female victim refused medical attention.

The Champaign Police Department said it is investigating this incident.

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Sid Saltfork wrote on November 21, 2012 at 9:11 am

The officer should be commended for his good work.  Thank goodness he shot the tire instead of a dog the perps may have had with them.

rsp wrote on November 21, 2012 at 9:11 am

It's like the wild west out there, Sid. I think they need to start wearing white hats. 

Sid Saltfork wrote on November 21, 2012 at 10:11 am

My hat is gray.  Your right it is becoming wilder, and wilder.  Once conceal and carry gets here, it will be Dodge City.  I feel that law enforcement should be accountable; but I still have faith in them.   This story will not get many comments praising the officer.  If he would have accidently shot the wrong dog, there would have been twenty comments at least by now.  Crazy world.....

jdmac44 wrote on November 21, 2012 at 10:11 am

Hey Sid, why don't you do us all a favor and scour the news for evidence of Dodge City's around the 39 Shall Issue states or the few others that don't even require a license, rather than spouting off your imaginary hypotheticals?  I'll give you a hint, they don't exist.  Conceal carry has been the law in the land in many states going on 30 years, such as in Indiana, and no state has ever tried to repeal it.  If conceal carry were that much of a problem, I guarantee you that there would be a groundswell effort to do just that.  It's about giving people a choice, an option.  The proposed bill for Illinois includes extensive training requirements, both on the law and actual gun handling and safety.  On the other hand, you can visit keepandbeararms.org for heaps of evidence from local publications around the country where guns are successfully used in self-defense, even when shots are not fired.  There's a reason why the anti-gun proponents can't put up a fight and the NRA is funded to the gills, because the anti's don't have a real argument in the real world, gun owners do.

jdmac44 wrote on November 21, 2012 at 11:11 am

Oh and PS, one reason that it isn't Dodge City in conceal carry states is because it's illegal for a civilian to discharge your weapon in a fashion that this officer did, but police officers are exempt from those laws; they're the ones that need to be reined in.  Conceal carry proponents tend to follow the law, if they didn't, they wouldn't care about getting a law passed, they'd just do it!

serf wrote on November 21, 2012 at 1:11 pm
shurstrike wrote on November 21, 2012 at 1:11 pm

serf, thank you for providing that link and for further reinforcing jdmac44's point. 

No one can shrug off 484 people being killed by licensed CC holders, but let's take a look at the bigger picture here.  For comparisons sake, in the time period from 2007-2011 (not including 2012) there were 78,154 murders in the United States.  The statistics that you provided - and we're going to assume they're correct even though they're hardly from an unbiased source - DO include 2012, while accurate national statistics won't be available until 2013 and will more likely than not be closing in on 100,000 murders.  Heck, in CHICAGO ALONE this year there have already been 490 murders, and there are still 40 days left in the year.

Those people in the link you provided would likely have murdered whether they were registered or not.  As you can see from the national statistics, conceal carry in no way makes it any easier or more convenient for someone to murder another person.

Finally, your statistics certainly solidify the fact that conceal carry does NOT lead to the ill-conceived misconception of the "wild west".  And when you consider that there are approximately 8,000,000 conceal-carry permit holders in the U.S., the entire argument falls apart.

Again, thank you for providing that link.

http://crimeinchicago.blogspot.com/

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry_in_the_United_States

http://legallyarmed.com/ccw_statistics.htm

http://www.kansas.com/2012/11/17/2572467/few-crimes-committed-by-concealed.html

serf wrote on November 21, 2012 at 2:11 pm

I'm not trying to make a point either way, I'm simply providing information so people can come to their own conclusions based on analysis and reason.

If you would like to debate, then let's debate.  Now I'll make a few points.

What people like you rarely like to admit s the fact that some CCW holders do commit crimes.  As is typically the case, you simply shrug it off by stating:

"Those people in the link you provided would likely have murdered whether they were registered or not"

That's quite a leap of faith on your part.  A common tactic used by the NRA crowd is to simply label people who commit crimes of violence while using firearms as 'criminals' and then drum them out of the group. Well, duh!  Of course people who commit crimes of violence using firearms are criminals.  But up until the point that they commit that crime, you seem to have no problem welcoming them with open arms.  The fact of the matter is that by loosening restrictions on firearms possession and concealed-carry, you are making it easier for people to put themselves in a position to use a firearm to commit a crime.

As for the statistics you provided, let's have some fun with numbers.  If concealed carry is the answer, then why have 70,000ish murder been committed in this country in the past five years in states that allow concealed carry?  Shouldn't the murder rate be close to 0?  Isn't an armed society a polite society?  

Here's my opinion based on my personal experience.  Those pushing the hardest for concealed carry are middle aged (or older) white men who typically live in less populated or rural areas that have a crime rate at (or close to) zero.  They are either paranoid or trying to make up for other shortcomings.  Don't believe me?  Go spend some time at the Indianapolis gun show and look around.

Here are some more links to look through:

firearms death rate per 100,000 population (interesting that the highest rates seem to come from 'red' states, huh?)

http://www.statehealthfacts.org/comparemaptable.jsp?ind=113&cat=2

child death rates due to firearms:

http://www.kidsandguns.org/study/fact_file.asp#deaths

 

 

 

shurstrike wrote on November 21, 2012 at 6:11 pm

I tend to read through a post until I get to the point where logic falters.  In this case I made it to "That's quite a leap of faith....".  Oh, is it?  If you think that conceal carry in any way made it possible for that handful of people who were licensed to conceal-carry to murder, then how do you explain the tens of thousands of the others that were committed by people who WEREN'T licensed to conceal carry?  And using your logic, since IL has no conceal carry in which to enable others to murder, why is Chicago the murder capital of the entire country, even surpassing NYC??   For comparison, NYC has 8.2 million people.  Chicago has 2.7 million, or less than on third the population.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/crime_statistics/cscity.pdf

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0763098.html

And finally, your comment, "If concealed carry is the answer, then why have 70,000ish murder been committed in this country in the past five years in states that allow concealed carry? Shouldn't the murder rate be close to 0?" lies somewhere between nonsensical and totally irrelevant.  The entire concept of conceal carry is based on the freedom and right to personal protection.  It will NEVER reach a rate of 0.  Even if all guns were banned and ultimately confiscated, if someone wants someone gone they're going to find a way to do it. 

Mark Taylor wrote on November 22, 2012 at 9:11 am

That's right!!!!!!

Those 484 people killed by trained and PATRIOTIC concealed carrying REAL AMERICANS were going to die anyway. So, logically, you can't blame concealed carriers just because they brought in on a little bit sooner.

The sense of MANHOOD and TOUGHNESS that the concealed carriers finally feel for once in their lives when they venture forth into the rough scary world because they're packing a REAL piece far outweighs the fact that they just made 484 fellow human being cease breathing a littler earlier than they otherwise would have snuffed it.

No Biggie.

CONCEALED CARRIERS are REAL AMERICANS and they aren't scared little emotional runts who need to pack heat to FEEL LIKE A REAL MAN. No, they aren't raging paranoiics who will draw down on gorls scouts selling cookies!!!! And, they are certainly not pathetic Walter Mittys who dream of thwarting evil doers and breaking out their boss piece and taking out some perps, even if they have to take out a few citizens who either get in the way or who made the bad decisions to look, in the eyes of the amped up concealed carrier, like perps.

That's just the price of freedom. I would die gladly at the hands of a tough guy over compensating concealed carrier just knowing that my death is a small price to pay for his freedom to, at long last, FEEL LIKE A REAL MAN BY PACKING HEAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Remember,as concealed carry proponents are fond of repeating: "an armed society is a polite society". You won't be so quick to piss me off in traffic when you know I might just blow you away for it. And I'm extremely sensitive slights, so don't look at me funny or let your kids baseball roll on my lawn.

Once I'm allowed to concealed carry, you'll see a NEW MAN. I'll walk the streets with confidence, daring anyone to slight me. Then they'll see. You'll all see.....

You'll all have to be extra nice to be, or else....

Support concealed carry -- it'll make people like me VERY HAPPY!!!!!!!!!!!11!

pagan69 wrote on November 21, 2012 at 3:11 pm

BS Meter pegged please provide verifiable references.

Not a self-serving propaganda sheet from the VPC.

Mark Taylor wrote on November 22, 2012 at 9:11 am

That's right. I don't like those sites that remind people that concealed carriers murdered 484 people.

So, the site is, ipso facto, invalid.

Next.

shurstrike wrote on November 21, 2012 at 1:11 pm

While I concur with many of Sid's beliefs, this "wild west" mentality is way off the mark. While it could make for a great script to a Hollywood production, it simply doesn't happen when conceal-carry is implemented.

Whether or not he personally wants conceal-carry is not the issue - it's about the fabricated and nonesensical notion that bullets will start flying when Illinois finally pulls its head out of the sand and gets with the times.  It hasn't happened elsewhere - rest assured it won't happen here.  Personally, I'd rather be sitting in a restaurant with well-trained and properly registered armed citizens around me than not. I wonder if the gun-grabbers realize that the guy they were just in line behind at the gas station.....or maybe it was the one they walked around at the bus stop.....or perhaps the one that they exchanged glances with at the stop light, were already armed, yet untrained and likely didn't even have a valid FOID card. The "what you don't know won't hurt you" theory may not hold water at some point down the line.

Sid, do your homework on this one and get back to us on it. If nothing else, you may sleep better. And Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.

Mark Taylor wrote on November 22, 2012 at 9:11 am

Ya, it's crazy to believe that you should be afraid of people who feel the need to arm themselves before venturing out into the scary world. The fact that these people are armed should make you feel safer.

However, it makes perfect sense to make insinuations about the possibility that some of those people you pass by might be armed. As a consequence of this expertly argued FACT OF REALITY, we have to arm ourselves to be even with them.

Again, perfect logic.

serf wrote on November 23, 2012 at 5:11 pm
jdmac44 wrote on November 21, 2012 at 10:11 am

The CPD has been really trigger happy this past couple of years.  Shooting at a tire?  What movies do they use for training?  Was the driver putting someone in immediate danger?  The same could be said for the dog shooting incident.  Then there's Kiwane Carrington and a shootout a few years ago at West Side Park where the photo on the News Gazette front page portrayed a car riddled with bullets in a populated area.  As a gun owner and enthusiast, I could only characterize those scatter shots at short range as being made in complete panic, with little evidence of training.  I wondered if the suspect actually put the bullet in that officers shoulder or if it was a crossfire with the other officer, but that case was quietly filed away along with the mentally ill suspect who was never tried and put in a mental institution.  CPD needs to take a good long look at itself and the kind of training that it gives to its officers.  After everything that's happened in recent years, I would have thought they would have already done that.

SR22 wrote on November 21, 2012 at 11:11 am

Please reread the article. The suspects reversed their vehicle toward the officer. Was the officer supposed to stand there and wait for the car to hit him? Bringing up Kiwane - how original! 

bluegrass wrote on November 21, 2012 at 1:11 pm

SR22 - The headline says he fired at the "fleeing" vehicle, not when the vehicle was reportedly backing up at the officer.  I usually find on the side of law enforcement, but it seems to me that officers have no business shooting at the tires of moving vehicles, especially in a busy, residential area where this occurred.

SR22 wrote on November 21, 2012 at 2:11 pm

Well then, naturally we should just let everyone who backs their car aggressively at a police officer get away! Why try to stop them?

bluegrass wrote on November 23, 2012 at 9:11 am

Just going by the article.  If the officer thought his life or another life was in danger, aim for the driver.  If the car is racing away, the officer should not be shooting at the wheels of a vehicle down Prospect.  If you think officers should be shooting t the wheels of moving vehicles, we'll have to agree to disagree in this situation I suppose.  I wonder what it says in the Champaign use of force manual about firing off rounds at tires.  Wasn't that just updated, or rewritten or something like that? 

rsp wrote on November 23, 2012 at 5:11 pm

That was in a alley, the car was later found on Prospect. It didn't say where the alley was that I've seen anywhere. 

pagan69 wrote on November 21, 2012 at 3:11 pm

No he was to move out of the way and await a clear triple tap shot

Local Yocal wrote on November 22, 2012 at 1:11 pm
Profile Picture

You are right, the CPD and PTI-trained police officers have been out of control for a number of years. A quick look at the recent incidents:

August 2006, homeowner Larry Martin is guarding his house from vandals one late evening with a BB gun rifle, when CPD gets a report of a man armed with a gun on a porch. Officers sneak up on Martin and Officer Mark Briggs "cranks off a round" [according to his police report], without announcing they were police and puts a bullet into Martin's groin. Police handcuff him and leave him bleeding on the driveway for 10 minutes until an ambulance arrives. In March of 2009, Champaign City Council votes to approve a $100,000 settlement with the Martins, though then-Chief Finney claims the shoot was just fine by him.

March 2007- then-17 year old Brian Chesley is walking with two friends, one just eight years old, across Douglass Park after attending a late-night open gym hosted by the Park District. Officer Andre Davis (the possible shooter of the lab, Dog) demands to see Chesley's I.D. with the claim that Chesley is "trespassing the park after dark." [No trespassing charges were ever filed by the State's Attorney] Chesley refuses, shouting, "F--- you, you ain't running me." [Meaning, you are not going to check me for warrants.] Davis calls for back-up, and Officers Shannon Bridges, Sgt. Dave Griffet, and Justus Clinton show up to throw Chesley against a chain link fence and haul him out to the middle of the street, pin him down with knees to the back of the neck, back and legs, and pepper spray the kid in the face. Over 15 witnesses watch in horror, and about 10 showed up to testify in court as CPD attempted to circle Chesley from being videotaped from all the cellphones that began recording the incident. Judge Kennedy disallows Bob Kirchner's attempt to show this type of law enforcement is selective and Chesley is found guilty of resisting a peace officer by an all-white jury as the assistant state's attorney repeats several times in closing arguments that then-city council member Gina Jackson didn't see the victim injured at all.

June 2007-  During Torriano Johnson's flight from police, Mildred Davis was sitting in her living room with her 2-year-old great-grandson nearby when Johnson burst into her home. Davis did not know him. Also in Davis' home were five other grandchildren ranging in age from 5 to 17. As officers Justus Clinton and Mark Briggs approached the home, officers were told there were children inside and not to shoot.  Officers shot more than 30 bullets with their weapons through her living room that ended up in her arm chair, closet, kitchen and through the back wall of the house. Mildred Davis grabbed her 2-year-old great-grandson to try to protect him just as police started firing into her home. Johnson never threatened Davis or the children, nor did he fire his gun while inside Davis' house. After Johnson left the home [arrested], police "proceeded to ransack the residence, damaging or destroying or taking personal items belonging to Davis and/or her grandchildren." City manager Steve Carter sends Rev. Charles Nash to Davis' home with an offer of $200 for the damages.

April 2008- the aforementioned shoot-out at West Side Park with Donnell Clemons. Clemons had been living in his car for over two years, when 3 CPD officers (including then-deputy Chief John Murphy) surrounded the vehicle, and according to Clemons, his back windshield is suddenly blasted out by gun fire. Clemons reaches for a pistol in his glove compartment box to defend himself and shoot-out continues. Officer Shannon Bridges takes a bullet to the shoulder from "friendly fire." It seems the officers were shooting at each other from either side of the car. Case is swept under the rug as a quick, Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity negotiated plea prevents the public from ever seeing the ballistic evidence. 

April 2009- A Villa Grove police officer decides to stop a car with Texas license plates because, according to State Police reports, the officer thought "they might be Mexicans." A failing medical student, Toto Kiayewu, baked on marijuana, exits his vehicle to talk with the officer and when the officer demands he get back into his car, Kiayewu decides to just leave. The officer would later claim he was shoved by Kiayewu, though squad car video footage does not support this. After a lengthy high speed chase through several counties, 12 police officers have Kiayewu surrounded in an open field with guns to Kiayewu's pitiful machete. A shot by a taser is ineffective, so... one of the officers puts a bullet into Kiayewu's brain, followed by two other shots by other officers. No discussion as to how officers can subdue a mentally ill subject is had, and it is accepted police can shoot and destroy whenever they feel threatened.

October 2009- Responding to a burglary-in-progress call, Chief R.T. Finney, wearing a leather jacket and jeans and carrying no lessor-impact weapons while on patrol, sees two small boys on a back porch, and immediately points his gun at the two and shouts, "Stop, or I'll shoot you!" [Finney attempted to fabricate he announced he was a police officer with investigators and concealed his initial shout at the boys.] Officers would later admit they initiated hands-on grabs to jerk the boys to the ground while their guns were drawn. 8 seconds later, unarmed Kiwane Carrington, 15, is shot dead with a single shot to the chest. According to State Police reports, no rifling-mark ballistic test is done to determine which gun shot Carrington. Eye-witness testimony from Carrington's friend at the scene, who said he saw "the man in the leather jacket" from a distance shoot Carrington, is disregarded, as the State's Attorney smears the boys' reputations before the public in the media with truancy and criminal records before the investigation is complete. Finney attempts to claim he was "attacked" by the boys and claims he sustained a "seperated shoulder" and "sprained knee" during an "attack" with a boy half his size, contradicting the reports of Officer Steve Reynolds, third on the scene and only seconds behind Norbits. No medical reports were ever released with the claim of privacy rights, despite the high-profile controversy. In exchange for his silence, accused officer Dan Norbits [a decorated 14-year veteran] remains on paid-leave until he is elgible for retirement pay. Most of the public buys "the boys were thugs" storyline and Finney is promoted to be president of an all-state association of police chiefs. The News-Gazette attempts to make money off the Carrington tragedy on its website.

June 2011- Officers Justin Prosser and Jon Lieb, without word, attack Iraq-veteran Darin Mitchell at the American Legion, hauling him out with hands behind his back, slamming his face to the concrete [supported by the booking photo] and pepper spray him directly in the eyes at extremely close range. 5 defense witnesses [Mitchell was accused of misdemeanor resisting] corroborate the above description, but defense attorney Lindsey Yanchus contradicts her own defense witnesses in final arguments by offering her client only resisted by tensing up his arms. The all-white jury, 9 of whom had friends or relatives in law enforcement, find Mitchell guilty.

June 2011- Officer Patrick Simons responds to the sight of black youth jaywalking on campus by driving his squad car directly at the youth, and exiting his car with a crowd-control size cannister of pepper spray. After a twenty-year old subject cooperates with Simons by walking over to the hood of his squad car while explaining he has done nothing wrong, Simons pre-emptively fires pepper spray into the subject's face and then at bystanders. Assisting officer Brian Aschell claims that during the handcuffing of the subject (who was crying in pain as officers twisted his wrists behind his back), the subject broke Aschell's hand and the twenty-year old is charged with a Class 4 felony of resisting, causing the injury to an officer. The subject is further attacked after he is in handcuffs. Formal complaints filed by the defendant's family are denied by command staff without investigation. Upon the public release of the squad car video footage, the felony charges are immediately dropped and further "investigations" are done as State Police and the FBI sweep it all under the rug. $40,000 is paid to the victim. Main concern for the Champaign government is how the squad car footage was released to the internet. Again, most of the public buys into the "black man was a thug" storyline.

October 2011- CPD claim one 18-year old Calvin Miller, son of activist Martel Miller, was speeding and fled from police. Miller attempts to drive to his mother's home, but panics, recklessly exiting his car and is trapped in a nearby backyard. 11 squad cars respond to the speeding car, and Officer Jon Lieb responds by beating Miller with a baton while Miller pleads for the officer to stop. The eighteen year old erroneously tells a reporter that a police squad car rammed the back of his vehicle. Seizing the opportunity, Chief Finney releases the squad car video to prove the "angry activists" wrong. But before anyone has a chance to put the r X t = d formula to the incident [proving Miller wasn't speeding] or analyze the audio [proving Lieb just showed up and started beating the crap out of Miller]; officials pull the video from the internet. Police officers show up at a city council meeting to declare the Millers are thugs and should be scared of the police. Again, public buys the "black man is a thug" storyline.

October 2011- during a trespassing call, Officer Jon Lieb slams Gary McFarland to the ground, breaking his jaw. Criminal case against McFarland is dropped, and McFarland is paid $45,000 by the Champaign City government.

And sadly, there will be more incidents coming to light from just this year. When will the CPD accept public oversight to prevent these type of altercations? As one prominent community leader put it recently, "The police act like dogs because they are trained like a dog."

 

 

 

Utowner wrote on November 21, 2012 at 11:11 am

No, he should have moved out of the way...if you have time to fire a weapon (correctly) you have time to move...

SR22 wrote on November 21, 2012 at 11:11 am

Well one day, I wish this same situation upon you, just to see how you handle it. It's unfortunate that there are people like you who think like this. This was an officers life at stake, yet you have the audacity to ridicule him for firing his weapon, even though he fired at the tire, not at the driver. If you don't like the way they handle situations, you go ahead and apply to be an officer. Untilyoi have experienced what they have, you cannot make a comment on what they do when their life is on the line, and you are freely sitting at home behind your computer. 

pagan69 wrote on November 21, 2012 at 3:11 pm

Been there done that, officer endangered civilians with his wild west show. RE-TRAIN

Mark Taylor wrote on November 22, 2012 at 9:11 am

Wishing other people were in potentially life threatening situations is a wonderful thing to do.

And you're right. Only people who are police have a right to even have an opinion about what cops do.

Also, if you've never been president, you HAVE NO RIGHT TO CRITICIZE OBAMA!!!!!!!

Perfect logic.

Utowner wrote on November 21, 2012 at 2:11 pm

 Nah, I'd rather annoy people like you who blindly follow lock-step with whatever the police report.  Riddle me this, what would have happened if that bullet struck the edge of a steel rim and ricocheted back?  Seems like getting out of the way would have been a better idea.  That probably would have inflamed the officers ego though.  

You're right, I'm not a cop, and I wasn't there, but as a citizen, I have a right to comment and a right to think his actions were unacceptable.  I'm also not a congressmen so I guess I can't have an opinion on our government.  I'm not an architect so I guess I can't have an opinion on how my house is designed.  I'm not an automotive engineer so I guess I should just buy what the dealer tells me to buy.  I'm not a nutritionist so I guess I should just eat what the package says to eat.  Get my argument here?

People are getting really tired of the 'I'm a hero' argument.  You do a job; a job you accepted the risks of doing.  You are compensated well with a nice pension and retirement after 25 years for the job that you do every day.  We all do what we do with the risks and benefits in mind.  It may be extrinsic, it may be intrinsic, either way, it is irrelevant.  

SR22 wrote on November 21, 2012 at 6:11 pm

Sigh, I guess some of us were just raised to respect authority better than others.  Yet, had the police officer done nothing, let the car flee, and the car hit a citizen when fleeing, it again would have been the police officer's fault for not doing anything to stop the car.  

And yes, that is their job, however, at this time of year, aren't we supposed to be thankful for what we have?  So, we should be thankful for these men and women who do these sort of jobs and do what they can to stop people like the suspects mentioned in this article.  I, for one, am thankful that officer is alive and well and was not ran over, and gets to spend another holiday with their family.  

Mark Taylor wrote on November 22, 2012 at 9:11 am

Sigh.

It sure is hard for us REAL AMERICANS who were raised so much better than every body else in this fallen world, isn't it. Makes me want to strap on my piece and find some punk who's feeling lucky...

pagan69 wrote on November 21, 2012 at 3:11 pm

Horrifying display of unprofessionalism, self-control and lack of good judgment discharging a firearm in a residential area. Didn’t the NYCPD add 7 to the body count recently by hosing down the area with gunfire playing Wyatt Earp?

Sid Saltfork wrote on November 21, 2012 at 5:11 pm

Gee........... look at all the comments since I commented this morning!  I spent my day outside working.  Based on the majority of comments excluding "serf"; the response only makes it clear to me that conceal and carry should be repealled in the states that have it, and it should not happen in Illinois.  If you have so much animosity toward someone who disagrees with you; it makes it clear what would happen if conceal and carry passed.

I take the comment that my family, and I should have a good Thanksgiving as genuine.  I do plan on a good Thanksgiving; and sincerly wish one for one and all.

sameeker wrote on November 21, 2012 at 7:11 pm

If you want to ban people from defending themselves, then the people should also be allowed to sue when the police are not there to protect them.

bb wrote on November 21, 2012 at 11:11 pm

It's clear from the updated story that he wasn't shooting at the tire.  If a car was backing quickly toward me, I wouldn't shoot at the tire either.  Shooting out one tire wouldn't do much good in time for the car to stop.  So what's more disturbing to me is that the inital story said he was.  Somebody's first inclination was to claim he was shooting at the tire.  Unsure about violation of "Use of Force" policy, so makes something up.  Is this standard operating procedure?

rsp wrote on November 22, 2012 at 4:11 am

It's standard operating procedure in the comments to make things up,  jump to conclusions and just in general have fantastical ideas about the capabilities of others in all situations. The ability to nitpick over the finest minutia has me wondering at times if my in-laws have come back from the grave. Some posts list every percieved wrong as if they were the victim. A pit bull was shot and it's "how big was it's wound" because it couldn't possibly be big enough even though they are going to kill it in a matter of days. They want actual measurements. But they still won't be satisfied. And then we have your post. It's standard operating procedure. 

Justsayit wrote on November 22, 2012 at 9:11 am

And then there is the "real" SOP:

 

 

41.2.2 MOTOR VEHICLE PURSUITS

1.

Preservation of life.

a. The overriding responsibility for police agencies in the State of Illinois is to protect human life and property. When the risks to human life and/or property outweigh or begin to outweigh the benefits of capture, officers shall refrain from or disengage pursuits. Officers involved in a pursuit shall not discharge any firearm from or at a moving vehicle, nor engage in any forcible stop technique, except as a last resort to prevent imminent death or serious bodily injury to an officer or another person.

serf wrote on November 23, 2012 at 6:11 pm

Two people get shot over a parking space:

 

http://www.wctv.tv/home/headlines/TPD-Working-Crime-Scene-at-WalMart-180...