Sunday conference to focus on 9/11 attacks

Sunday conference to focus on 9/11 attacks

URBANA — A conference planned this weekend in Urbana will explore issues surrounding the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001.

The Midwest 9/11 Truth Conference will be held at 1:30 p.m. Sunday in the auditorium of the Urbana Free Library, 210 W. Green St.

The event is sponsored by UC 9/11 Truth Urbana-Champaign.

Admission is free and open to the public.

People who have been studying the events of Sept. 11 will talk about their perspectives on the attacks.

"According to national and international polls, nearly 30 percent of the population is skeptical of the 'official' version of the events of 9/11," said Steve Francis of UC 9/11 Truth Champaign-Urbana. "The 9/11 Commission Report is viewed as a cover-up by a significant percentage of citizens and the 9/11 Truth Movement seeks to find answers to these questions about the real cause of those atrocities."

The conference will begin the presentation of a documentary film, "Explosive Evidence: Experts Speak Out."

James Fetzer, the founder of Scholars for 9/11 Truth, will comment on the documentary and report on scientific findings.

Wayne Madsen, editor of WayneMadsenReport.com, will provide an analysis of who may have been responsible for the attacks and why.

Kevin Barrett, co-founder of the Muslim-Jewish-Christian Alliance for 9/11 Truth, will serve as moderator and will add his perspective on the issues.

For more information on the event, call Fetzer at 608-354-4280.

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isnt-it-a-pity wrote on September 16, 2013 at 9:09 pm

Wow, wack party - Jim Fetzer, Holocaust denier. Kevin Barrett, Holocaust denier. And locally, Steve Francis, called out on local activist lists for the Holocaust denial stuff on his website.

What do you bet they blame it all on the Jews?

jimfetzer wrote on September 17, 2013 at 9:09 am
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This is pretty strange.  While the official account of the Holocaust raises questions of its own, this symposium is about 9/11.  The qualifications of the speakers are not in doubt and the issues could hardly be of greater importance.  

I will be addressing the science of 9/11; Wayne Madsen, who was responsible and why; and Kevin Barrett will be moderating.  There appear to be those who don't want you to hear what we have to day BEFORE we have even had the chance to say it--it's THAT important!  

Sunday, 1:30-5 PM, The Urbana Free Library.  Free and Open to the Public. See  http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/09/11/answering-questions-the-midwest-911-truth-conference/

isnt-it-a-pity wrote on September 17, 2013 at 11:09 am

"While the official account of the Holocaust raises questions of its own"

Oh, don't be shy, Jim! You've been on various internet radio shows claiming that the Nazis killed fewer than one million Jews in WWII, and that the gas chambers were just simply made up.

Why not step up and admit where you stand?

isnt-it-a-pity wrote on September 17, 2013 at 6:09 pm

I want to thank Jim Fetzer for demonstrating so thoroughly that adage about how it's better to stay silent and be thought a fool etc.

Poor Jim opened up his mouth, and every word that came forth condemed him more.

He's certainly shown that he's a Holocaust denier, has major Jew issues, and I'm very sorry to hear he's going to spend as much as one day in our town.

Albury Smith wrote on September 17, 2013 at 9:09 pm

It's pretty strange having a retired philosophy professor addressing the science of 9/11, Jim, but I hope you'll address my W14 X 730 suggestion. Perhaps you could ask Drs. Sunder and Gross of NIST to address some philosophy of something or other too.

Midwest911Truth wrote on September 17, 2013 at 5:09 am

As expected, accusations of being anti-Semitic have begun because of the announcement of The Midwest 9/11 Truth Conference.  The 9/11 Truth movement is growing faster than at any stage of its 12 years history and these accusations have existed from the very day of that horrific event. UC 9/11 Truth Urbana-Champaign is just a part of that movement and offers no apologies for its actions.

We fully support the activities of the groups listed below.  This is just a partial list, many more exist and are a vibrant part of Israeli society and culture.  The conference speakers will fully address these issues.

NKUSAJewsNotZionistsJewsAgainstZion,  JewsAgainstZionismInternational Jewish AntiZionist NetworkAmerican Jews Solidarity Against ZionismRabbis Against ZionismIsraelVersusJudaism,

For example, we fully support the efforts of the International Jewish AntiZionist Network and the contents of their 'Help Us Build a New Region' page (below).

"The network is constantly expanding based on the interest of anti-Zionist Jewish activists already organizing or interested in building in their city or region.

Building the network looks different in every region in response to the specific needs, time, capacity, and conditions of each location. There are many ways to build the network, here are a few:

  • Start a study group and use the study as an opportunity to build relationships, political unity and local strategy. (Click here to read more about study groups.)
  • Organize an anti-Zionist educational or cultural event and invite people to an organizing meeting to introduce the work of IJAN and discuss directions for building the work in your area.
  • Take action! Put out a call for anti-Zionist Jewish activists to participate in an existing Palestine solidarity action or organize an action in response to a regional or international IJAN call for action.
  • Organize an anti-Zionist spiritual or holiday event like a Liberation Seder or a tashlich ceremony. (Click here to contact the Spiritual Network.)
  • Gather a group to participate in one of the sector networks (students, academic, cultural, Jews of Color, or spiritual.) (Explore the sector networks listed on the left.)
  • Gather Jews who are already participating in Palestine solidarity work to join IJAN as members but continue to do the work through local groups to which they already belong while participating in and informing the regional or international building.
  • Participate on-line by supporting petitions, letters, editorial and article writing."

We enthusiastically invite citizens of the community to get an alternative view of the events of 9/11 that is consistent with the laws of physics and based on the collection of evidence in the spirit of the scientific method.

Thank you for your consideration.

Steve Francis

UC 9/11 Truth Urbana-Champaign (Facebook)

Albury Smith wrote on September 17, 2013 at 6:09 am

The latest from Fetzer is that mini-nukes brought down the WTC hi-rises and the Mossad did the Sandy Hook massacre and Boston Marathon bombings. Barrett's recently written articles claiming that no Muslims were on the planes hijacked by al Qaeda terrorists on 9/11. Gage thinks dropping empty cardboard boxes on each other is scientific research, divines the causes of building collapses by timing them (dishonestly), claims room-temperature dust clouds that leave paper trails are "pyroclastic," and that molten metal in debris fires months after 9/11 is evidence of controlled demolition. Posting facts and logic on 9/11 troofer web sites is a sure way to be accused of being a "paid government shill" and then get banned from commenting immediately. I sincerely hope you're not wondering why so few of us take your 9/11 "truth movement" seriously.

Midwest911Truth wrote on September 17, 2013 at 7:09 am

Just stick to the facts.  The top 14 floors of the WTC towers accounted for only 1.4% of the weight of the buildings.  The structural core beams in the basement were six inches thick and only 1/4" thick on the top floors.  It is physically impossible that 1.4% of the building mass could cause the pulverization (into a nano sized dust) of  the remaining 98.6% of the building consisting of 100's of thousands of tons of steel and concrete.

NIST (National Institute for Standards & Technology) changed their story from a pancake theory to a bowing beam theory, neither of which are plausible according to the laws of physics. Their own tests were flawed and the data exaggerated. FEMA changed its story.  There are thousands of inconsistencies in the 'official' version, that did not even report on the destruction of WTC 7 (a 47 story building next to the WTCs)... I could go on and on.

Over 2,000 members of Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth have documented hundreds if not thousands of details of the events surrounding the deliberate explosive demolition of the WTCs.  See also Firefighters for 9/11Truth, Military Officers for 9/11 Truth, 911Review, Law Enforcement for 9/11 Truth and especially our speakers ...etc...

A heinous crime was committed on 9/11.

Albury Smith wrote on September 17, 2013 at 8:09 am

You're very obviously not a structural engineer, and know zero about dynamic loading, controlled demolition, or even basic commercial construction, so let's "just stick to the facts":

The 4 corner columns in each WTC tower's core, and 11 of the 24 core columns in WTC 7 were W14 X 730s, i.e. 4.91" flanges, 3.07" webs, and 215 sq in cross-sectional areas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c2o8k4n9CY
Please urge Box Boy* and his "experts" to demonstrate for you on video with audio how they're secretly cut with explosives (or incendiaries, since he can't decide which). 

If they ever HAD TO do it, this "debate" would be OVER.

*Box Boy's ONLY 9/11 "research":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFVoencqfZw

Albury Smith wrote on September 17, 2013 at 8:09 am

Since your speakers are a retired philosophy professor and an investigative journalist, both of whom at least claim to believe that the Mossad collaborates with al Qaeda suicide terrorists, and you have no competent SEs in your entire 9/11 "truth movement," here's another look at a tower and WTC 7 core COLUMN (not "beam"), so your "experts" will know exactly what to look for:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.ochshorndesign.com/cornell/writings/milstein-critique/images/8-fig04.png&imgrefurl=http://www.ochshorndesign.com/cornell/writings/milstein-critique/sustainability8.html&h=478&w=638&sz=404&tbnid=q-S41Ix2mT4HeM:&tbnh=91&tbnw=122&zoom=1&usg=__UlCatIoHNuaIBUbQaF2PuEchSxU=&docid=adi9gO1tvsGG9M&sa=X&ei=FIbgUaLxFOr54APlsYHABA&ved=0CDUQ9QEwAw&dur=135

We've already seen what happens when empty cardboard cartons are dropped on each other, so now let's see what happens when explosives or incendiaries are actually planted on a representative WTC hi-rise core column.

Despite its title, Gage's latest dog-and-pony show has no EXPLOSIVE[S], EVIDENCE, or EXPERTS, but the first 2 of those deficiencies can easily be addressed.

jimfetzer wrote on September 17, 2013 at 10:09 am
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This post is laden with false claims.  Albury Smith has made a career of attacking those who understand 9/11 better than does he.  I will discuss alternative theories about how the Twin Towers were destroyed, including the official "collapse" theory, the nanothermite theory, the DEW theory and the nuke (maxi and mini) theories.

I have a Ph.D. in the history and the philosophy of science, where I spent 35 years offering courses in logic, critical thinking, and scientific reasoning.  I do not believe that the Mossad or al Qaeda did either Sandy Hook or the Boston Bombing, but they are not what we are discussing on Sunday at the Urbana Free Library at 1:30.  

This post exemplifies the principle that it can be easy to lie and complicated to sort out why those claims are lies.  The BIG LIE we will address is the claim 19 Islamic terrorists hijacked four commercial carriers, outfoxed the most sophisticated air defense system in the world and committed the atrocities of 9/11. That's a BIGGIE.  

 

isnt-it-a-pity wrote on September 17, 2013 at 11:09 am

"I have a Ph.D. in the history and the philosophy of science, where I spent 35 years offering courses in logic, critical thinking, and scientific reasoning."

And to think that some people say God has no sense of humor.

isnt-it-a-pity wrote on September 17, 2013 at 11:09 am

By the way, here's what Fetzer has to say about Sandy Hook:

"The Sandy Hook massacre appears to have been a psy op intended to strike fear in the hearts of Americans by the sheer brutality of the massacre, where the killing of children is a signature of terror ops conducted by agents of Israel."

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/12/23/mossad-death-squads-slaughtered-...

Got that?

Funny that he's backing away from it here, rather than letting fly the way he does on Gordon Duff's wackadoodle conspira-foil site "Veterans Today."

jimfetzer wrote on September 17, 2013 at 4:09 pm
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Well, I have published seveal articles about Sandy Hook, where this was only the first when information was most sketchy and incomplete.  This guy is concealing the fact that I have done a great deal on this subject since and no longer hold the views that I held then--because new evidence has superseded them!  Consider these:

"Sandy Hook: Huge Hoax and Anti-Gun Psy Op" http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/12/27/sandy-hook-huge-hoax-and-anti-gun-psy-op/

"Sandy Hook: Analogies with the London 7/7 Bombings" http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/01/06/sandy-hook-analogies-with-the-london-77-bombings/

Or, on the Boston bombing, which may be the most blatant false-flag attack in US history, consider these:

"Some hard lessons from the Boston bombing" http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/04/19/some-hard-lessons-from-the-boston-bombing/

"Welcome to Amerika: No more Truth, Justice or American Way" http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/04/22/welcome-to-amerika-no-more-truth-justice-or-american-way/

"Boston bombing:  New Hampshire vs. Jim Fetzer" http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/05/10/boston-bombing-new-hampshire-vs-jim-fetzer/

Just look at the evidence I present and make up your own mind.  These guys are playing you for saps.  Don't fall for it.

 

isnt-it-a-pity wrote on September 17, 2013 at 5:09 pm

Shorter Jim Fetzer: "Oh no no no no, I no longer believe that the Sandy Hook shooting was an *Israeli*-government false flag attack designed to terrorize the American population! I now believe that the Sandy Hook shooting was an *American*-government false flag attack designed to terrorize the American population! That's much, much, much less loony!"

jimfetzer wrote on September 17, 2013 at 6:09 pm
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Well, this is a nice example of the point I have made--that it's easy to lie and can be complicated to explain why something IS a lie, as in this instance.  The first article that I submitted to Press TV was entitled, "Sandy Hook--the rest of the story".  But it appeared in print with an inflammatory title not of my choosing.  I explained that in the article you will find if you follow the link, but those who are dedicating to the art of the smear DON'T CARE ABOUT TRUTH.  They especially are going to exploit any advantage they can extract, even from a misleading title that I did not select.  Judge this for yourselves: resorting to smears indicates the absence of logic and evidence. After all, if they had a real argument to make, they would be making them instead.

At Sandy Hook, DHS vehicles were in the vicinity BEFORE the alleged shooting. It appears to have taken over the Connecticut State Emergency Communications Network early that morning.  There was no rush of EMTs into the school to rush the children to hospitals, where qualified physicians could pronounce them dead or alive.  No parent of my acquaintance would have allowed their child's body to be left in the classroom and only removed in the dead of night.  The Newtown City Clerk made special arrangements with the legislature and the governor to avoid having to release death certificates to the public, even though that had been the practice for some 200 years.  Anyone who thinks this was a real shooting has missed the boat.

isnt-it-a-pity wrote on September 17, 2013 at 7:09 pm

Well, now I'm curious. What *do* you think about the fluoridation of water? Was General Ripper right?

Bulldogmojo wrote on September 17, 2013 at 4:09 pm

You have a Ph.D? So what? Bill Ayers has a doctorate, that doesn't mean I would give any credence to anything he says. How you conduct yourself and apply your education in the end is what matters. You say you've done hundreds of interviews on radio and TV and mention you were on Hannity and Bill O'Reilly? That's a little like saying you operated the dunk tank at a carnival. They will put on anyone who panders to their crackpot view of the moment. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwRKpwDHblk

What's next? You get a timeshare in the Hamptons with Alex Jones? Rise to the level of your education AND common sense that any primate walks around with.

Muslim extremists caught us with our pants down on 9/11 because they were gullible enough to believe that "God" told them to kill and territorial incompetence between the CIA and FBI failed to intervene. Simple truth.

BTW some of the hijackers had degrees also if that is the validation you're seeking.

jimfetzer wrote on September 17, 2013 at 5:09 pm
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A former Marine Corps officer, Jim Fetzer has published widely on the theoretical foundations of scientific knowledge, computer science, artificial intelligence, cognitive science, and evolution and mentality. 

McKnight Professor Emeritus at the University of Minnesota Duluth, he has also conducted extensive research into the assassination of JFK, the events of 9/11, and the plane crash that killed Sen. Paul Wellstone. 

The founder of Scholars for 9/11 Truth, his latest books include THE EVOLUTION OF INTELLIGENE (2005), THE 9/11 CONSPIRACY (2007), RENDER UNTO  DARWIN (2007), and THE PLACE OF PROBABILITY IN SCIENCE (2010).

That's a brief bio sketch. For more, see http://www.d.umn.edu/~jfetzer/  I have 29 books and hundreds of articles, including three collections of expert studies on JFK, another on 9/11 and a co-authored book on Paul Wellstone.  

I love it when people who have accomplished nothing attack those of us who have done just the least bit more.  Notice the completely irrational stance they are taking, not offering a single bona fide reason to question my research.

We must be doing something right to generate this hysterial response from those who appear to want to conceal the truth about 9/11 from public awareness. Come and hear what we have to say and make up your mind for yourself.

 

isnt-it-a-pity wrote on September 17, 2013 at 5:09 pm

"A former Marine Corps officer, Jim Fetzer has published widely on the theoretical foundations of scientific knowledge, computer science, artificial intelligence, cognitive science, and evolution and mentality."

Raise your hands, folks, if you think it's not possible to simultaneously be a PhD and a lunatic.

Albury Smith wrote on September 17, 2013 at 9:09 pm

Nothing like a retired philosophy professor discussing forensic structural engineering. I've suggested a great way to demonstrate your C/D theory on some representative WTC core columns, but you and your friend here seem unwilling to discuss it. These are reality, not a false claim: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.ochshorndesign.com/cornell/writings/milstein-critique/images/8-fig04.png&imgrefurl=http://www.ochshorndesign.com/cornell/writings/milstein-critique/sustainability8.html&h=478&w=638&sz=404&tbnid=q-S41Ix2mT4HeM:&tbnh=91&tbnw=122&zoom=1&usg=__UlCatIoHNuaIBUbQaF2PuEchSxU=&docid=adi9gO1tvsGG9M&sa=X&ei=FIbgUaLxFOr54APlsYHABA&ved=0CDUQ9QEwAw&dur=135Have you considered inviting Drs. Sunder and Gross of NIST to discuss the philosophy of something or other too? 

Albury Smith wrote on September 18, 2013 at 5:09 am

Gee, nothing like a retired philosophy professor discussing forensic structural engineering. I've suggested a great way to demonstrate your C/D theory on some representative WTC core columns, but you and your friend here seem unwilling to discuss it.These are a reality in the cores of all 3 collapsed WTC hi-rises; they're not a false claim: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.ochshorndesign.com/cornell/writings/milstein-critique/images/8-fig04.png&imgrefurl=http://www.ochshorndesign.com/cornell/writings/milstein-critique/sustainability8.html&h=478&w=638&sz=404&tbnid=q-S41Ix2mT4HeM:&tbnh=91&tbnw=122&zoom=1&usg=__UlCatIoHNuaIBUbQaF2PuEchSxU=&docid=adi9gO1tvsGG9M&sa=X&ei=FIbgUaLxFOr54APlsYHABA&ved=0CDUQ9QEwAw&dur=135Have you considered inviting Drs. Sunder and Gross of NIST to discuss the philosophy of something or other too? 

jimfetzer wrote on September 17, 2013 at 10:09 am
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While I am a retired professor of philosophy and a former Marine Corps officer, I am also the founder of Scholars for 9/11 Truth for which I invited Steve Jones, Ph.D., to be my co-chair.  I organized its first national conference in Madison (2007) and its first international conference in Vancouver (2012).  I edited and published its first book, THE 9/11 CONSPIRACY, a title that fits whether or not the official account is correct, since it only requires complicity between two or more persons to commit a crime to qualify as a conspiracy.  I have done hundreds of interviews on 9/11 on radio and TV, including "Hannity & Comes" (twice) and "The Factor" with Bill O'Reilly.   

I also organized a research group consisting of the most highly qualified experts and scholars to study the death of JFK in 1992, leading to the publication of three books (ASSASSINATION SCIENCE 1998, MURDER IN DEALEY PLAZA 2000, and THE GREAT ZAPRUDER FILM HOAX 2003) and chairing or co-chairing four conference on JFK (Minneapolis 1999, Dallas 2000, Dallas 2001, and Duluth 2003).  I will be the keynote speaker at my 5th, "JFK: The Assassination of America", Santa Barbara, CA, on 22 November 2013.  For more, see "JFK 50th: The keys to understanding his assassination", http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/06/13/jfk-50th-the-keys-to-understandi...

isnt-it-a-pity wrote on September 17, 2013 at 11:09 am

So, while we're counting loony conspiracies that you're on board with, what about NASA faking the moon landings?

Oh, yeah, you're onboard with that one too:

http://nwopodcast.com/fetz/media/jim%20fetzer%20real%20deal-dave%20mcgow...

Boy, this conference sure smacks of deep academic credibility, doesn't it.

jimfetzer wrote on September 17, 2013 at 5:09 pm
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Actually, the moon landing hoax is completely fascinating, where I was drawn to its study when I caught "Conspiracy Theory: Did we land on the moon?" on the BBC during a visit to London.  I have taken an interest in these events for many years now but was only interviewed about it for the first time by Sterling Harwood, J.D., Ph.D.: http://kliv.gotdns.com/kliv/paid/2013_05_02_SpirtToSpirt.mp3  Check it out and, if you think I have something wrong, let me know what I said and why I said it as well as what I have wrong and how you know.  I have lots to learn about all these events.

isnt-it-a-pity wrote on September 17, 2013 at 11:09 am

"As expected, accusations of being anti-Semitic have begun because of the announcement of The Midwest 9/11 Truth Conference."

That's because you've loaded it down with Holocaust deniers. Get away from the Holocaust deniers, and you might have a leg to stand on. But pack the list with Holocaust deniers - and pack your own site with Holocaust denial crap - and you're simply getting what you've earned.

Take a look at Steve's website to see videos from the biggest names in Holocaust denial - Zündel, Bradley Smith, and even ol' David Duke.

http://www.newsfollowup.com/holocaust_revision_israel_british_rothschild...

Don't want to be called out for antisemitism? That's really easy. Don't invite Holocaust deniers to your conference, and don't put Holocaust denial videos on your website.

jimfetzer wrote on September 18, 2013 at 1:09 am
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You appear to me to be a propagandist who has no serious interest in 9/11 Truth.  As an illustration, you raised the Holocaust--in the first comment on this thread!--when it has nothing to do with this symposium.  None of us is a "Holocaust denier".  All of us believe that aspects of the historical events cited by that name have been at least somewhat exaggerated.  

Let me test you sincerity even about the Holocaust with a question about the origin of the number 6,000,000.  Do you acknowledge that this figure is not derived from WWII but has its origins in the Torah? and that it made its first appearance in newspapers in 1900, as http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=24369 among other sources confirm? Can you admit as much? Remember, you are the one who brought up this issue.

isnt-it-a-pity wrote on September 18, 2013 at 7:09 am

"You appear to me to be a propagandist who has no serious interest in 9/11 Truth."

You appear to be a fountain of crazy conspiracy theories, which pile up in your writing like so much cordwood, with "proof" that wouldn't fool a kindergartner. (You offer "Capricorn One" as evidence that Stanley Kubrick faked the moon landing for NASA? Really?)

But the problem isn't just that you're rocking out at the high end of the Wocka-Wocka Index. You've also got a very obvious and very ugly thing against the Jews. That's what gets you into statements like the one above, where you say, "Don't call me a Holocaust denier, I don't deny *all* of it, only ninety percent of it." It takes a special kind of jackboot personality to find an argument like that persuasive. Yet you do.

Bulldogmojo wrote on September 17, 2013 at 11:09 am

"According to national and international polls, nearly 30 percent of the population is skeptical of the 'official' version of the events of 9/11,"

LMFAO 30% of the population is skeptical of ANYTHING! DUH

My favorite conpiracy morons are the ones who declare "Jet fuel couldn't explode like that because it only burns under compression and at high tempreatuuuuuure *drool* so it had to be a bomb maaaaaaaan." LOL

Yeah that controlled pressure and high tempurature is taking place it's called THE ENGINES ARE RUNNING! The crash just gives that reaction access to all the fuel at once!

Do these morons really think that all film and video footage of every jet crash was a conspiracy run up to 9-11.

It scares me how close these broken clock logic rubes live so close to us.

Midwest911Truth wrote on September 17, 2013 at 12:09 pm

Another issue that will be discussed at the conference is the abnormally high levels of cesium and barium in the debris of the WTCs.  The data comes directly from US Geological Survey.  

It points to the possible cause of nearly 1000 deaths of the WTC First Responders.  see: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/death-toll-9-11-responders-nears-1-000-pols-autopsy-standards-pinpoint-article-1.453796

 

isnt-it-a-pity wrote on September 17, 2013 at 12:09 pm

Does Jim Fetzer's Holocaust denial bother you in any way, Steve?

Midwest911Truth wrote on September 17, 2013 at 1:09 pm

They say that history is written by the victors. 9/11 and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq that were instigated by the events of 9/11 and their outcome are no different.  There has been a concerted effort by the Bush and Obama administrations to hide the true outcome of those two wars.  A million people were killed in Iraq based on a lie about WMD.  There was no WMD found, but no one has been held accountable for that fact. Their spin is tragically comical.

Veterans are grossly misstreated and ignored judging by the incredibly long waiting lists they have to endure to get help.  810, 245 veterans have a disablity rating of 70 percent or higher.(http://www.infoplease.com/spot/veteranscensus1.html)  They are just pawns in a horrific plan.

All reporting on wars and conflicts in the last couple of hundred years are filled with lies and distortions including the holocaust.  There have been countless genocides and the Zionists are the only people trying to capitolize on this. No group of people on earth have been more accused of false flag attacks, lies, and deceptions, including the stealing of Palestinian land from those innocent people, than the Zionists. Jim Fetzer and I and millions of others are waking up to the truth and both we both are revisionists and not deniers.  Jim will have much more to say about this.

isnt-it-a-pity wrote on September 17, 2013 at 4:09 pm

"They say that history is written by the victors."

But that's a much different thing than saying that everything the victors write is made up.

So you think the gas chambers were made up by "the victors"?

isnt-it-a-pity wrote on September 17, 2013 at 4:09 pm

By the way: "Jim Fetzer and I and millions of others are waking up to the truth and both we both are revisionists and not deniers."

Every two-bit Holocaust denier calls himself a "Holocaust revisionist." So pardon me for failing to be impressed.

jimfetzer wrote on September 17, 2013 at 6:09 pm
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Well, this is a nice example of a myth that this symposium is intended to debunk.  UL certified the steel used in the towers to 2,000*F for three or four hours.  Jet fuel is principally kerosene and burns at a relatively low temperature.  As Jesse Ventura has observed, his camping stove burns propane, which has a higher temeprature than kerosense.  But it does not melt when he uses it on a camping trip!

NIST studied 236 samples of steel taken from the towers and found that 233 had not been exposed to temperatures above 500*F and the other three not above 1,200*F. They only burned for about an hour in the South Tower and an hour and a half in the North.  But they could have burned forever and not done any damage to the steel.  The Twin Towers did not collapse but were blown apart from the top down.

I simply do not understand why any as ignorant as this seems to think he has the right to attack those of us who have actually studied the science of 9/11 as "loons", but that is his style.  Here's a study of 20 reasons the official account of 9/11 is wrong: http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/09/10/20-reasons-the-official-account-of-911-is-wrong/ which is an excellent review of some of the scientific issues that I will cover.

Lostinspace wrote on September 17, 2013 at 1:09 pm

And who really shot Lincoln, anyway?

bluegrass wrote on September 17, 2013 at 2:09 pm

I think this is not so much a news story, as it is a warning. 


From Mr. Fetzer's blog, it appears that he believes that most likely scenario regarding the Sandy Hook massacre was that Adam Lanza and his mother were killed the night before, and Lanza was dressed in riot gear and "stored" in the school.  The next day a 3 man Mossad team murdered all the children and teachers, two escaped and one was arrested, but the person arrested also somehow disappeared. 


Oh, also the DC sniper, Aurora killer, and the Ft. Hood terrorist are/were somehow either government agents or working for the 'bad' Jews.  Does that about sum it up?

Midwest911Truth wrote on September 17, 2013 at 2:09 pm

You seem to be much more interested in smearing the messenger than addressing the message, which is construed by many as desperation and fear of that message. 1000 WTC First Responders have died.  Please address this.

bluegrass wrote on September 17, 2013 at 3:09 pm

If one believes that recounting what Mr. Fetzer wrote is "smearing the messenger," what does that say about the message?

Ingrained in the very fiber of any successful conspiracy theorist, is the ability to construe events and writings in any way they choose.  The fact is that making up stories to fill in blanks does not change reality.

The reality is you are using the deaths and memory of those first responders to do nothing more than bring attention to yourselves, which I am ashamedly adding to right now.  Just as I call out people like Pelosi and Durbin for using the Sandy Hook children to further their own agenda, so do I call you out for doing the exact same thing on the other side.  The misconstrued emotion you sense from me is not fear or desperation, but it is rather a sick, disappointment in society as a whole, that news of your little get together would be more than a footnote on a crumpled up flyer on a bathroom floor.  I fully realize that the "many" you speak of, who think I'm scared of your truth will always think me ignorant.  That doesn't matter to me.  What matters to me is simply calling your bluff.

isnt-it-a-pity wrote on September 17, 2013 at 4:09 pm

This is a basic part of the worldview of people like Fetzer. If something bad is done by a Jew, then it shows how bad the Jews are. If something bad is done by a non-Jew - oh, like, flying a plane into a building in NYC - then it shows how completely the Jews have hidden their fingerprints on the "false flag" crime.

But antisemite? Oh! heavens no. Perish the thought! Just ask Fetzer, and he'll be sure to tell you that some of his best friends are Jews. And Steve brought up his ideal Jews, the Neturei Karta - despite the fact that they're pretty much the Westboro Baptist Church of Judaism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yisroel_Dovid_Weiss

That's the guy behind about half the sites Steve listed as "good Jew" sites.

jimfetzer wrote on September 18, 2013 at 1:09 am
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I hardly ever even use the word.  I prefer to deal with science, logic and evidence.  The whole Holocaust thing seems to have been introduced to discourage the public from learning what we have to explain about 9/11, what happened, how it was done and who was responsible and why.  Given the importance of the subject, I would have thought discussion would focus on 9/11, not irrelevant issues like this one.

But given the obsession of our critics with the Holocaust, it would be desirable were they to display a degree of seriousness comparable to that of the subject itself.  As I have observed several times now, the figure 6,000,000 is not historical in origin but appears to have been derived from the Torah.  Many sites discuss it, including this: http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=24369  Can't any of you admit this simple fact?

And suppose there is evidence that Israel played a role in 9/11?  Would explaining the evidence that leads to this conclusion be "anti-Semitic"?  It has nothing to do with ethnic origins or religious orientation. There are articles by Alan Sabrosky and a book by Christopher Bollyn that address it, not to mention the web site, "Israel did 9/11--all the proof in the world".  It doesn't have everything right, but would anyone here care to explain what it has wrong?

Perhaps that is what is behind this "Holocaust deniers" and "anti-Semitic" claims, which have no foundation.  Those who are serious in doing research on WWII are going to come to the conclusion that the Holocaust has been exaggerated, based on sources such as those I have cited elsewhere.  But don't we have an obligation to get history right?  And isn't that the reason why we need to study 9/11--to get it right?

Wayne Madsen, Kevin Barrett and I are going to do our best "to get it right". We all believe in evidence-based history.  We all believe in science.  I will explain what the latest scientific research has to tell us about 9/11.  Wayne will address who was responsible and why.  And Kevin will contribute his views about whether or not Wayne and I have "got it right"!  Come and decide for yourself on Sunday at 1:30 in Urbana.

isnt-it-a-pity wrote on September 18, 2013 at 8:09 am

"I prefer to deal with science, logic and evidence."

Except, as been repeatedly demonstrated here, when you're supporting your argument with racist crap from hate sites.

"The whole Holocaust thing seems to have been introduced to discourage the public from learning what we have to explain about 9/11, what happened, how it was done and who was responsible and why."

The whole Holocaust thing was introduced to demonstrate the very, very low moral caliber of those putting on this little clown show. What I didn't expect is that you would then personally show up here to confirm that yes, you are indeed every bit the Captain Tinfoil BigJewConspiracy I said you were.

jimfetzer wrote on September 18, 2013 at 9:09 am
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Well, I have repeatedly asked for proof that I am wrong about any of these issues. As in this case I have repeatedly been met with irrelevant replies, ad hominem and question begging attacks that have no basis whatsoever.

Your response, which does not even address the point about the 6,000,000 figure demonstrates YET AGAIN that those who are attacking have a political agenda that has nothing to do with 9/11 Truth.  Consider:  

(1) None of you is displaying any interest in the truth of 9/11. My posts about the science of 9/11 have been simply ignored, where I have linked to "20 reasons the 'official account' of 9/11 is wrong", http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/09/10/20-reasons-the-official-account-of-911-is-wrong/ 

(2) Even when I respond to your obsession with the Holocaust by advancing some arguments, you do not even respond to those, either, but persist in the commission of elementary fallacies by presupposing we are "Holocaust deniers" when that is false. You don't even respond to my points about the Holocaust: 

(a) The figure 6,000,000 appears to be derived from the Torah and have a religious or ideological foundation.  Anyone can do a search on "the origin of the 6,000,000"  for discussion and documentation, as http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=24369 explains.  How can those with a serious interest in the Holocaust not respond?

(b) The allied bombing of German cities was massive and unwarranted and had, as a collateral effect, cutting German railroad lines, which made it impossible to resupply the concentration camps, as Robert Faurisson has observed in http://robertfaurisson.blogspot.com/2012/02/against-hollywoodism-revisionism.html

(c) That point impacts on who was responsible for mass starvation in those camps, where even Hitler's highest ranking aides were stunned by the evidence that was presented during the Nuremberg Tribunals, which appear to have been intended, in part, to conceal the allies culpability for large numbers of deaths by starvation.

(d) Indeed, among the findings of the Tribunal was that collective punishment (of innocent civilians for crimes committed by their leaders) was a war crime, where the allies themselves were therefore committing war crimes by bombing cities and causing the death of vast numbers of innocent civilians throughout Germany.

(e) None of us deny that the Nazis were "bad guys" who committed monstrous acts of military aggression, territorial conquest and killed millions, including many Jews and gypsies and the mentally and physically infirm.  That is not in doubt.  But there are many reasons, including these, to believe the events have been exaggerated.

(f) I have also explained that I have done at least a half-dozen interviews about the Holocaust on my radio program, "The Real Deal", which are accessible by going to its archives at http://radiofetzer.blogspot.com and doing a search using the word "Holocaust".  No one has show the least interest in learning more by doing that.

(g) I have also explained the necessity to draw a clear distinction between being "anti-Semitic" and "anti-Zionist", where Zionism is a political ideology based on belief in Jewish superiority and dubious historical claims to entitlement to the land of Palestine and the right of Israel to dominate the Middle East, which I discuss at http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/06/04/anti-anti-semitism-and-the-search-for-historical-truth/

All of these issues are relevant to discussion and debate about the Holocaust and some, such as (g), are also relevant to discussion and debate about 9/11 and how it has been used to justify America's involvement in wars in the Middle East, which appear to be advancing an Israeli agenda by deconstructing modern Arab states and converting them into little statelets that offer no resistance of Israel's influence.

THAT is an issue worth discussing!  But it should be apparent already that those who are attacking us on the ground that we are "anti-Semitic" are ignoring all the points I have made ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST ITSELF.  If our critics were even remotely serious about the Holocaust, surely they would be engaging me about it.

The evidence AVAILABLE IN THIS DISCUSSION THREAD BY ITSELF reveals that this is NOT a difference between anti-Semites and those who are standing up for the Holocaust but between those of us who want to get history right and those who want to perpetuate myths for their political benefits in promoting an agenda.

When Gilad Atzmon, the celebrated critic of Jewish identity politics, gave a talk in Madison, it struck me that the reason Holocaust mythology is so important to the Zionist program is that it hinges upon a Western sense of guilt over the Holocaust.  A more accurate history of WWII threatens that political agenda and therefore must be suppressed.     

 

 

isnt-it-a-pity wrote on September 18, 2013 at 10:09 am

So the filibustering continues.

"Well, I have repeatedly asked for proof that I am wrong about any of these
issues."

While reserving unto yourself the right to decide what does or doesn't constitute proof. That's why nobody's buying what you're selling.

The burden of proof is on you, not us. You're the one who's trying to say that every history book of WWII is wrong. But when asked to back that up, you gave us the URL of a white power site, and an essay on it noodling about Jewish mysticism and gematria - and, not so incidentally, full of full-frontal antisemitism. That was your "proof."

When this is pointed out to you - when the raw knuckle-dragging moron-ness of what you're doing is pointed out to you, the really wretched paucity of scholarship you rely on is pointed out to you, the hate-based fuel fueling your discussion is pointed out to you - all you want to do is change the subject. And then give one of those I'm-really-not-losing-this-discussion-really-I'm-not slabs of Gish-gallop filibuster.

wayward wrote on September 17, 2013 at 4:09 pm

Seems like this mostly just illustrates that *any* member of the public can reserve a room at the library, which is as it should be.  It doesn't mean that anyone who holds a "conference" at the library is necessarily sane.

isnt-it-a-pity wrote on September 17, 2013 at 4:09 pm

Worth noting on Constitution Day - the First Amendment grants the right to peaceably assemble even to bug-eyed wocka-wockas with tinfoil in their toothpaste and some pretty damn obvious problems with The Jew.

In a way, it's like the Urbana public access problems a few years ago, when someone as deeply uncritical as Steve here decided to start putting neo-Nazi tapes on the air. Turns out people have a right to do that.

But we in turn have to right to say, just as Fetzer et al have the right to show the world what crazy Jew-hating wocka-marracas they are, so do we have the right to say, hey, what a bunch of crazy Jew-hating wocka-marracas.

Midwest911Truth wrote on September 17, 2013 at 4:09 pm

On calling a bluff.... one can ask: qui beneficia?

Who has gained the most from illegal cooked up wars started by false flag events such as 9/11?  The 9/11 Truthers have gained nothing.

Who has wiretapped our phone calls and read our emails?  The 9/11 Truthers have only been victims and have no ability whatsoever to access the equipment to do this.

Who has allowed the banks to gamble with our deposits? The 9/11 Truthers have only been victims and have absolutely no representation in Congress.

Who would rather have us talk about Kardashian and Zimmerman than Obama's support of al Queda/ al Nusra in Syria.  The 9/11 Truthers own no media conglomerates.

Muslims Jews and Christians lived in a relative harmony throughout the Middle East until 9/11.  What changed and who changed it.

Who uses cluster bombs and depleted uranium on innocent people?  Not the 9/11 Truthers.

Who calls Edward Snowden a traitor rather than a whistleblower?  

Do I need to go on?

 

isnt-it-a-pity wrote on September 17, 2013 at 4:09 pm

Just to connect the lurid trail of dots you're leaving, Steve, whom exactly are you claiming owns the banks and the media conglomerates, runs the national security apparatus, and by the way also did 9/11?

A one-sentence answer, if you can manage it.

Midwest911Truth wrote on September 17, 2013 at 5:09 pm

Google "ICTS International 9/11" .... ICTS handled security at the Charles de Gaulle Airport outside Paris when “shoe bomber” Richard Reid boarded a US-bound plane on December 22, 2001. The company also handled security for London’s bus system during the July 7, 2005, suicide bomb attacks. And ICTS shared security duties on September 11, 2001, at Boston’s Logan Airport, where two of the four suicide hijackings originated.   

Please prove me wrong on this?   .... and please see the link ...  

Wikipedia ICTS  "ICTS International and its two subsidiaries, ISEC and PI, provide security services to the Schipol airportUnited Airlines and US Airways. The firm's security system came under scrutiny and as part of the international investigation into how Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab was able to board Northwest Airlines Flight 253 with explosive materials.

I'll let you read the details in Wikipedia who owns ICTS

 

Next I'll do the banks, then the media conglomerates if need be.

isnt-it-a-pity wrote on September 17, 2013 at 6:09 pm

A one-sentence answer, if you can manage it.

Yes, I know that the mind of the conspiraloon is like a pot full of ramen noodles knotted together so thoroughly that they can't possibly be separated, but surely you're capable of a one-sentence answer.

Who's behind it all, Steve? Can you say in one sentence? Who owns the media, Steve? Who runs the banks?

Can you say in one sentence, not a pile of disconnected ramblings like your previous reply?

Who's the culprit, Steve?

Tell us!

isnt-it-a-pity wrote on September 18, 2013 at 10:09 am

I guess you couldn't manage it.

jimfetzer wrote on September 17, 2013 at 4:09 pm
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This is a classic case of DISTRACTION.  Not wanting the truth about 9/11 to be addressed, several here are making this a question about the Holcaust.  I am a Holocaust REVISIONIST, because I have concluded that we have inherited a grossly exaggerated account of the events that are alleged to have taken place at the end of WWII.  The number of alleged "victims" of the Holocaust, 6,000,000, for example, appears to be a number that has theological or ideological origins and is not historically accurate.  See, for example, a study discussing the origins of the 6,000,000 myth at http://zioncrimefactory.com/the-six-million-myth/  I agree that the records of the International Committee of the Red Cross support about 600,000.

Moreover, the Nuremberg Tribunals appear to have presented a biased case to convey the impression that the Nazis were responsible for the extensive starvation of inmates at internment camps. As Robert Faurisson, "Against Hollywoodism, Revisionism",  http://robertfaurisson.blogspot.com/2012/02/against-hollywoodism-revisionism.html has explained, that appearst to have been a consequence of Allied bombing of German cities, which interdicted railroad lines and made it impossible to resupply the camps, leading to mass starvation. Ironically, the Tribunals found that collective punishment is a war crime, which the Allies appear to have been keen to cover-up by attributing the starvation to the Nazis instead.  There are many other reasons to doubt the "official account" of the Holocaust.  I do not DENY that Jews, gypsies and the mentally and physically infirm were abused by Nazis, but the nature of that abuse appears to have been exaggerated for political purposes. It is no coincidence that the allegation of being a "Holocaust denier" is raised against any one who is remotely critical of the actions or policies of the government of Israel, which may qualify as "anti-Zionist" but does not qualify as "anti-Semitic". For more, I have a half-dozen or more interviews on "The Real Deal" discussing Holocaust mythology at http://radiofetzer.blogspot.com.  Anyone can go there and do a search on "Holocaust".  I published an article about this question, "Is 9/11 research 'anti-Semitic'?" in 2009. It is offensive that Zionist organizations and individuals continue to attack all of us who are trying to make sense of the evidence about the Holocaust and to counter the false account of history that these exaggerated attacks entail, which play upon a sense of Western guilt to manipulate the public to promote the political agenda of Israel.  There is more that could be said here, but I would like to think that this is enough.  I have most recently laid out my views on these questions in an article in Veterans Today in 2013: http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/06/04/anti-anti-semitism-and-the-search-for-historical-truth/ 

isnt-it-a-pity wrote on September 17, 2013 at 4:09 pm

"This is a classic case of DISTRACTION."

This is a classic case of a nutcase whose swastika-scented nuttery denying the Holocaust has come back to bite him in the butt big time.

Fun to watch, too! Sort of an emperor's new clothes thing. How very different is the real life Fetzer we're seeing here to the sanitized one in the press release the article quoted! Turns out he's not a world-class scholar after all, just a frothing loon with Jew issues.

A guy who's signed on to the JFK-assassination-is-fake conspiracy.

A guy who's signed on to the Apollo-is-fake conspiracy.

A guy who's signed on to the Holocaust-is-fake conspiracy.

A guy who's signed on to the 9/11-is-fake conspiracy.

What's left, fluoridation-is-fake?

jimfetzer wrote on September 17, 2013 at 5:09 pm
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My recent research, especially since my retirement, has focused on the complex and controversial issues of our time, including the assassination of JFK, the atrocities of 9/11, the plane crash that took the life of Sen. Paul Wellstone, the Sandy Hook hoax and the Boston bombing--and even the Apollo moon landings, which, I am sorry to say, appear to have been faked to create the impression that the US was ahead of the Soviets in the space race, even though that was not the case.  Some of these frauds, including blaming Lee Harvy Oswald for a crime he did not commit, have emboldened the government to perpetuate even more frauds.  

I am committed to using my background and abilities to expose falsehoods and reveal truths in the believe that the American people are entitled to know the truth about their nation's history.  Check out the qualifications of the speakers and make up your mind as to whether they might have something worthwhile to add to your understanding of the atrocities of 9/11, which have been used to justify the "war on terror" and revise the Constitution.  Ask yourself why a veritable blizzard of very low-quality ad hominem attacks has been launched here in an obvious effort to try to discourage you from hearing us out about 9/11. If you believe the rubbish they are peddling, pass. Wayne Madsen, Kevin Barrett and I will do our best to explain 9/11.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/09/11/answering-questions-the-midwest-...

isnt-it-a-pity wrote on September 17, 2013 at 6:09 pm

So we've got:

9-11 was fake.

The Wellstone crash was a fake.

The Holocaust was a fake.

The JFK assassination was a fake.

The moon landing is a fake.

The Boston bombing is a fake.

The Sandy Hook shooting is a fake.

I think I'm maybe starting to detect a pattern in your thinking here.

jimfetzer wrote on September 18, 2013 at 1:09 am
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Well, in your zeal to smear us, you simply play on commonly held beliefs that turn out to be false, which is known as the appeal to popular sentiments:

9/11 was not committed by 19 Islamic terrorists who hijacked four commercial airliners and outfoxed the most sophisticated air-defense system in the world;

the Wellstone plane crash was not an accident, as the NTSB reported, but was very carefully contrived for the GOP to take control of the Senate and attack Iraq;

the Holocaust has been exaggerated for political reasons, including war crimes by the allies in the form of collective punishment of German cities, which they needed to conceal;

JFK was hit four times--in the throat from in front, in the back from behind, and twice in the head (from behind and from the right-front)--where Lee Oswald didn't do it;

the moon landing was easier to pull off than most realize, as the film, "Capricorn I", releals, where Stanly Kubrick seems to have faked the landings for the government;

the Boston bombing was an obvious fraud, where the Craft International perps had been outed by the alternative press already the evening of the event itself; and,

the Sandy Hook event was staged to promote gun control, which fell short but not for a lack of trying.  Check out http://www.veteranstoday.com/author/fetzer/ for my and other's articles about them. 

If anyone thinks I am wrong about any of this, just take a look at the evidence and tell me what I have wrong and how you know, so I can take your arguments into account.  

Most of us don't have the luxury or the background or the ability to take this on, but I am a professional scholar who has been devoting himself to their study since my retirement.

I am not happy with what we have found, but the core of rationality is to adapt your beliefs to the available relevant evidence.  For an explanation of how this can be done, consider

"Thinking about 'Conspiracy Theories': 9/11 and JFK", which provides an introduction to "inference to the best explanation" in reasoning about cases like these at http://www.d.umn.edu/%7Ejfetzer/fetzerexpandedx.pdf

I have benefited from collaborating with authorities in different domains, such as a world authority on the human brain and expert on wound ballistics, a Ph.D. in physics who is also an M.D. and board certified in radiation oncology;

an M.D. who was present when JFK was brought into Trauma Room #1 and two days later was responsible for the treatment of his alleged assassin in Trauma Room #2, a legendary photo analyst and another Ph.D. in electromagnetism.

In relation to 9/11, I have similarly benefitted from collaboration with physicists, pilots, engineers (structural, mechanical, aeronautical, and chemical), which has enabled me to sort things out on the basis of experts in areas where I am not.

If anyone wants to know what we have learned about 9/11, where I am going to be joined by Wayne Madsen, perhaps our nation's leading investigative journalist, and Kevin Barrett, a brilliant student of 9/11, then join us on the 22nd in Urbana.

 

 

 

isnt-it-a-pity wrote on September 18, 2013 at 9:09 am

Kind of a standard thing from internet wackos - when you know you've lost, filibuster and hope to drive away your opposition through simply boring them away. Then, when they're gone, claim victory.

bluegrass wrote on September 17, 2013 at 6:09 pm

Ahhhh.  It's so clear to me now.  The Holocaust occurred because the Allies were keen on bombing railroads.  But really, maybe if some of those 'bad' Jews wouldn't have went and gotten themselves rounded up in the first place and put in those camps, then the Bilderberg's wouldn't have had to use their puppets to fly nuclear bomb planes into the World Trade Center.  And then, if that didn't happen, Mossad agents wouldn't have had to murder 20 children and 6 adults at the Sandy Hook "Hoax," as you call it.  

 

jimfetzer wrote on September 17, 2013 at 7:09 pm
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Serious research is painstaking and time consuming.  Cheap parodies and sarcasm based upon ignorance are not.  I specialize in the former, you in the latter.  Let's take a test of our relative competence on any of these.  You pick your favorite where you think I am most likely to be wrong.  Explain what I say and why I say it, then tell us what I have wrong and how you know.  You pick the subject and I will respond. If you are unwilling to engage, it will be obvious that you are a fraud.  So let's give it a go!

Nice Davis wrote on September 17, 2013 at 8:09 pm

That's certainly a novel argument! "I spent all this time and effort being crazy. If you don't spend the same amount of time and effort, perhaps it is you who is the crazy one!"

jimfetzer wrote on September 18, 2013 at 12:09 am
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What's the point of this loopy post? Are you willing to take up the challenge that bluegrass appears to be avoiding? But then, you really have nothing to say but little quips that amount to virtually nothing. I can't imagine why you are even posting here. 

wayward wrote on September 18, 2013 at 12:09 am

Are you willing to take up the challenge that bluegrass appears to be avoiding?

What challenge?  Getting you to take your meds?

jimfetzer wrote on September 18, 2013 at 1:09 am
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Well, I have taken stands on a wide range of complex and controversial subjects. I have invited any of my critics to show that I am wrong.  I find it remarkable that none of you is even willing to try, which I take as an implied admission that you can't do it. I am, as it were, a "target rich" environment.  But no one is willing to take me on.

bluegrass wrote on September 18, 2013 at 12:09 pm

What you call a challenge, is not a challenge at all.  Rather, it is the classic conspiracy theorist anti-theorum:  I believe "X" happened, and you must prove me wrong or admit that I am correct.  You don't start with known truths and build with facts.  The reason why you cannot be debated, is that you start with an outcome of your own choosing, then you find holes and use that empty space to "prove" your conclusion.  Furthermore, if, for some reason your original conclusion is proven to be wrong by facts that cannot be disputed even by a trained conspiracy theorist, instead of reverting to the accepted version of reality, you simply change the outcome again and move on, disregarding any truth along the way.  It is stunning to watch.  That ability to control one's own mind to be able to accept certain truths, and completely ignore them at the same time, was defined in 1984 as "doublethink."  

bluegrass wrote on September 17, 2013 at 9:09 pm

If one person believes that 2+2=5, and the other believes 2+2=4, it is not possible to have a serious conversation on the value of numbers.  You are not a serious person, and the only fraud I have committed was to regurgitate your own silly ideas.  

jimfetzer wrote on September 18, 2013 at 12:09 am
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You response speaks for itself.  You cannot defeat any of my arguments, so it is better you not even try. You are all buster and no substance. I have called your bluff. You won't admit that I am right, but you appear to be unable to show that I am wrong. 

isnt-it-a-pity wrote on September 18, 2013 at 8:09 am

You're reminding me now of Professor Kinbote, the always-sure, always-wrong professor of Nabokov's "Pale Fire." Except with added bonus antisemitism.

wayward wrote on September 17, 2013 at 10:09 pm

Serious research is painstaking and time consuming.

Dude, what would you know about "serious research?"  Helpful hint: serious researchers don't cite websites like zioncrimefactory.com .

jimfetzer wrote on September 17, 2013 at 11:09 pm
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This is simply childish.  You commit the trivial genetic fallacy.  The source of an argument does not determine its validity.  The points about the myth of 6,000,000 is presented there.  It is also presented on other web sites.  So either you can defeat the evidence it presents or you cannot.  The answer, it is obvious, is you cannot.

wayward wrote on September 18, 2013 at 12:09 am

Actually, if you're getting your "facts" from dubious sources, that does affect your credibility.  Thanks for playing.

jimfetzer wrote on September 18, 2013 at 1:09 am
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Here's a suggestion.  Do a search on the origin of the 6,000,000 and see what pops up.  You will find multiple sources.  But you need to consider the arguments and the evidence they present, not simply dismiss them because you don't like their names.  Then tell me what you have learned about the origin of the 6,000,000.  Try it!  And remember the Holocaust was introduced in the very first comment--and not by me.

isnt-it-a-pity wrote on September 18, 2013 at 8:09 am

That's exactly the point. He pounds his chest saying that he's got X years teaching the history of science, so by golly we'd better listen to him - and then his "research" turns out to be a pile of white power websites.

So now he's jumping up and down saying "Pay no attention to the white power websites behind the curtain! I am the great and powerful PhD!"

B Loges wrote on September 18, 2013 at 2:09 pm

waywardminds.com   Try that one, "Wayward".

wayward wrote on September 17, 2013 at 10:09 pm

This ZionCrimeFactory that you cite also has a page on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/ZionCrimeFactory/154988017976648 .  How many links to obvious white supremacist sites can you find on it?

jimfetzer wrote on September 18, 2013 at 12:09 am
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More of the same.  This is know as guilt by association.  The question is whether the evidence it presents is accurate and true. Here's another source that makes the very same point:  http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=24369  Why are you posting if you cannot deal with logic and evidence but have to resort to fallacies that I spent 35 years teaching freshmen to avoid?

wayward wrote on September 18, 2013 at 12:09 am

Really?  Let's take a look at some of the garbage on that site, shall we?  For example, let's take a look at "Jew World Order Unmasked" at http://zioncrimefactory.com/jew-world-order/  .  It even cites "Protocols of Zion" as a source.  More than once, in fact.

While we're at it, why not take a look at some of the sites that ZCF links to?  They've recently added "The Daily Stormer," which sure looks like a blatant white supremacist site to me.  Another of their new links point to "Expel the Parasite," which claims, "EXPEL THE PARASITE! FOR WHITE SURVIVAL AND DESTROYING THE JEWISH MENACE - 14/88."  For those who don't know what the cute numbers mean, 14 refers to the "14 words" (http://archive.adl.org/hate_symbols/numbers_14words.asp) and "88" is shorthand for "Heil Hitler," since H is the 8th letter of the alphabet.  Whaddaya know -- ZCF also has links to sites like "Rat Faced Jews" and "Total Fascism."

jimfetzer wrote on September 18, 2013 at 12:09 am
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I have already explained that the same information is presented on other web sites, such as http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=24369  So stop evading the issue and address the content. Do you admit that the 6,000,000 figure is derived from the Torah and is not a number that originally appeared toward the end of WWII?  Can you do that much in the pursuit of truth?  Or do you want the myth, the whole myth and nothing but the myth?  Can you admit that the allies were massively bombing German cities?  Is that something you can acknowledge? No one denies that bad things were taking place in Germany at the time, but sorting out truth from fiction requires dedication to reason and rationality.  I'm not encountering a lot of that here.

isnt-it-a-pity wrote on September 18, 2013 at 8:09 am

"Do you admit that the 6,000,000 figure is derived from the Torah and is not a number that originally appeared toward the end of WWII?"

Haha! "Do you admit..."

Really, you're doing great. Keep digging that hole you're in.

Tell us, for example, whether or not Zyklon B is really poisonous.

jimfetzer wrote on September 18, 2013 at 11:09 am
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Another in a long list of examples that isnt-it-a-pity is a shill for Zionism and not a serious student of 9/11 or of the Holocaust.  Scientific research supports the view tha Zyklon B was not used to gas millions of Jews during the Holocaust, which appears to be another exaggeration about WWII.  Nick Kollerstrom, an historian of science from the UK, who is the author of TERROR ON THE TUBE and an expert on the 7/7 London subway attacks, has done research on this question and found that the kind of residues that would have been left on the walls of the shower rooms do not show the effects that would be present were those accounts true.  

He, too, of course, has been attacked as "anti-Semitic" and as a "Holocaust denier", but that turns out to be par for the course for anyone who raises any questions about the historical accuracy of the "official account" of the Holocast.  In fact, you don't have to be addressing the Holocaust at all if the guardians of Zionism perceive you as a threat to their mythology.  Here is an article about Nick that discusses his findings, which I am confident will also be ignored by this "brain trust". Their hypocrisy is quite stunning.  "The Search for Truth: Research on the Holocaust can End your Career", http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/02/04/the-war-on-truth-research-on-the-holocaust-can-end-your-career/

isnt-it-a-pity wrote on September 18, 2013 at 12:09 pm

So, check the "no gas chambers" box for Fetzer.

Now let's try this one: did Hitler actually have any intent whatsoever to kill the Jews of Europe at all?

Also, why do you think people are so misinformed about what Hitler did to the Jews? Is the Holocaust as we know it a hoax?

jimfetzer wrote on September 18, 2013 at 12:09 pm
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You are so intent on making political smears that you ignore the role of science in arbitrating between different accounts of crimes and their commission.  I suppose if a body were found, you would calculate how spinning the death could benefit Zionism and not care about establishing how the victim was killed or who was responsible.

That is clearly the pattern you are displaying here. Nick has an interest in several investigations of residual iron-cyanide in the walls of Auschwitz buildings, which are inconsistent with the official "gas chamber" account.  You seem to think that politics should trump science.  But this can only be established by scientific investigation.

Why are you changing the subject AGAIN AND AGAIN?  I have spelled out a series of key points about the Holocaust from (a) through (g).  Why are you and your allies not responding to those issues?  They are clearly defined and supported by sources, so the only excuse for ignoring them is you don't want to admit that you are wrong.

isnt-it-a-pity wrote on September 18, 2013 at 1:09 pm

Wiggle wiggle woggle goes the Fetzer.

Sorry, that wasn't an answer. Let's try it again.

Now let's try this one: did Hitler actually have any intent whatsoever to kill the Jews of Europe at all?

Also, why do you think people are so misinformed about what Hitler did to the Jews? Is the Holocaust as we know it a hoax?

isnt-it-a-pity wrote on September 18, 2013 at 8:09 am

"This is know as guilt by association."

Dude, you're the guy who posted a white power site as if it were a legitimate source. That's not guilt by association, that's guilt by guilt.

Nice Davis wrote on September 17, 2013 at 5:09 pm

I'm torn. Part of me wants to attend this event to see just how nutty these guys are in person, while another part of me doesn't want to waste 3+ hours of my weekend listening to loons hash out conspiracy theories that have been thoroughly debunked by any number of much more credible sources.

Question for Jim: At previous events like this, have the best fireworks come at the beginning, middle, or end? I'd hate to miss the circus, but I don't want to sit through the boring parts where you're just drawing your half-baked conclusions.

Rog47 wrote on September 18, 2013 at 3:09 am

What would really cause Fetzer and friends a big problem would be if large numbers of people who oppose his claims about 9/11, Holocaust, etc. show up and question him politely.  They might even keep out the true believers if they get there and get all of the seats.  They are probably holding this event in Urbana because they want a University of Illinois connection but could not get their meeting on to the campus.  I would expect them to video the event and advertise that it was at Urbana near the University of Illinois just like Fetzer plays up his former distinguished professorial role that has nothing to do with his 9/11, etc. rants.  Do ask Fetzer about Doug Rokke and about his connection to David von Kleist the master of ceremonies at this event - he will have a lot of tap dancing to do on the head of a pin.   You might also ask him about Leuren Moret and her claims about the US having used the University of Alaska HAARP research project for tectonic warfare to create the Tohoku Earthquake and subsequent tsunami.  Both Rokke and Moret have been with Fetzer at prior 9/11 events, perhaps as his personally invited guests.  They also both appear in von Kleist's "Beyond Treason" and von Kleist also produced "Plane Truth".  The Nazi connection is pretty hard to deny.  No one else flies the red flag with the swastika in the center.  Neo Nazi American Free Press/The Barnes Review convention http://www.chairmanofnordwave.blogspot.com

The 9/11 Truthers are really a cottage industry, but no sales, no buying, no donations are permitted by the libraries rules.  Please, do be aware of this.

You might also ask the library for the application for the room.  I would expect it to be a public record subject to disclosure under the Illinois Freedom of Information Act.  That would disclose the nature of the non-profit organization (one with an IRS 501(c)(3) designation?) has applied for the room.

Midwest911Truth wrote on September 18, 2013 at 6:09 am

In response to your allegation that this conference has a connection to neo-Nazis I can easily and comfortably reply that there is none.  What I care about is what really happened on 9/11 and know the official version is total bunk.  At no point will we ask for any donations and not because of library rules.  There is not a shread of advertising monetary profit on any of my websites and I was the sole decision maker on choosing the Urbana Free Library for the conference. Jim Fetzer had absolutely no input on this decision that was made before he and began communicating.  I'm grateful to the UFL for having the room available in a society that holds great value in free speech. (Well, at least according to the Constitution)  

You will find no affiliations to any national organizations on my part.   You can search my past till the cows come home and all you'll find is a life of a dirt poor musician peace activist.  I'm in my sixties now but when I was 18 years old my life was turned upside down because of the fraudulent (Gulf of Tonkin Resolution) Vietnam War.  I volunteered for the draft in 1969 and served in the Army at Fort Hood, Texas.  I didn't go to Vietnam but saw many of the destroyed empty-of-life heroin addicts returning from Vietnam and because of this and many other experiences in the Army became a highly active antiwar activist.  I think you see my point here and do not need to expand on this.  Luckily I came out of it understanding that the Vietnam War was just another gear in the war-profit machine.

When 9/11 occurred I was puzzled by it as were most.  But when Bush and Cheney started talking about invading Iraq, old memories of the Vietnam War came welling to the surface.  I started poking around on the internet trying to figure why we were talkng about another war and soon realized that I was just looking at a replay of the Vietnam War. 

To cut to the chase here, in my research on the events of 9/11 and the research of millions of people all over the world have consistently led to only a few places and countries.  It soon became apparent that 'the war-profit machine' was well oiled and ready to go back into action.   The highest percentage ever of dual Israeli-American citizens occupied the closest positions to Bush and Cheney in the decision to invade Iraq and Afghanistan.  Why are we Israel's mercenaries?

And if you keep digging you find significant events and documents that affect great change in the course of civilization.  One of those documents is the Balfour Declaration. 

Wikipedia Balfour Declaration "His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

It is an extraordinary document that is completely relevant to the discussions over the last day on this comment section of the News Gazette.  James Fetzer and I are being accused of being anti-Semitic because everyone involved knows that the trail of tens of thousands of pieces of evidence to the heinous crime of 9/11 leads to Israel and specifically the Zionists who were the creators of this document, along with the leaders of Britain and America.  There were 400-500 villages bulldozed out of existence and 100's of thousands killed or chased out of their homes.  Gaza.  The American Indians know exactly what I'm talking about.

We are not afraid of accusations of being anti-Semitic.  We see and fully understand what that accusaton is used for.  Our conference is about the evidence and not about defending ourselves from false attacks.

Why is it that James and I are being attacked by the Jewish community for our research and conclusions about 9/11?  Are they afraid of what will be discovered? Why is it that the so-called peace process never goes anywhere?  What are the true aims of the leaders of Israel?  If you look at a map of Palestine when the Balfour Declaration was created you will find clues to the answer.  If you look at a map of Israel in 1948, and 2005, then 2013 you will again find the answer.  If you put two and two together and make some connections to World War II and the holocaust you find more evidence of the real aims of the leaders of Israel.  Most people know what I'm talking about here and have there own opinions on how to interpret these ideas so I won't expand on them any further.  I am a Holocaust Revisionist not denier.  

It is becoming well known that all wars are cooked up to control financial and natural resources.  Forbes Magazine has reported that only .2% of the population is Jewish but 15% of billionaires are Jewish.  Just sayin'.

Just in the last week, AIPAC (formerly Zionists of America) pulled out all stops to lobby Congress to attack Syria knowing all well that a vast majority of Americans opposed the attack, but also knowing they have a death grip on Congress.  Dear God I hope they fail.  There effort is NOT consistent with " nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine"

I learned that Sen. Dick Durbin voted for a military response.

If you are going to attack me for being anti-Semitic, be careful what that attack will lead to.  There are millions of people all over the world that are putting the FACTS together.  

I stand by this statement from a segment of the Jewish population in Israel:

"Jews Against Zionism is an organisation of Jews and others opposed to the Zionist movement and ideology, and to its impact on both Palestinians and Jews. We believe that the conflict in Palestine cannot be resolved without a return of Palestinian refugees and dismantlement of the Zionist structure of the state of Israel; and that this is impossible in the context of “two states“ and a re-partition of Palestine.

We advocate the only approach which can lead to peace with justice in the region; we call fro a unitary, secular and democratic Palestine, the return of Palestinian refugees, and full and equal rights for Palestinians, Israeli Jews, and all other people living in the whole of Palestine."

 

isnt-it-a-pity wrote on September 18, 2013 at 7:09 am

"James Fetzer and I are being accused of being anti-Semitic because"

... Fetzer's an antisemite and you're too gullible to see through it.

Didn't we have the same problem at UPTV a few years ago, where some yutz was putting on Nazi crap onto public access because he was too dumb to see the antisemitism and racism in it? You're in the same boat, Steve.

isnt-it-a-pity wrote on September 18, 2013 at 7:09 am

You really did go all the way to the Stanley Kubrick moon thing.

The gold standard of whackadoodle-ism.

That's hilarious!

jimfetzer wrote on September 18, 2013 at 10:09 am
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This guy continues to demonstrate that he has done no research on any of these issues and has no idea what he is talking about.  For what appears to have been Stanley Kubrick's role in faking the moon landings, see the  article by Jay  Weidner at http://assassinationscience.com/HowKubrickFakedtheMoonLandings-1.pdf and listen to my interview with him on "The Real Deal", where you can find it archived at http://radiofetzer.blogspot.com by doing a search on his name.  It was faked using front screen projection, which makes the background just as precise and in focus as the foreground, which is ordinarily an optical impossibility--absent "special effects"!

isnt-it-a-pity wrote on September 18, 2013 at 10:09 am

Those of you who wonder where you've heard the name "Jay Weidner" before, it was most likely as part of the movie "Room 237," which played at the Art Theater earlier this year. It was a documentary consisting, you'll remember if you saw it, of the ranting of crazies trying to "make sense" of Kubrick's "The Shining." Jay Weidner was the guy who pointed to the "Apollo 11" on Danny's knit sweater as Kubrick's coded "confession" that, yup, he'd faked it all up using special effects techniques he'd developed for "2001: A Space Odyssey."

This is the level of Fetzer's method.

Up until this thread, Jay Weidner was the single wackiest wackadoodle I'd encountered, even that indirectly, so far this year. But Fetzer not only embraces Weidner, *and* trooferism, *and* Holocaust denial, *and* reams of other nonsense as well.