I'm tired. I'm way past tired of the lame excuses for not seriously talking about guns. I'm a gun owner, shotguns for hunting, and for the first time in my life, I'm ashamed. I'm ashamed of a country that would rather our children went to schools that more resemble jails (complete with "resource officers") than take away a gun from even the most irrational gun-buyer.
I'm ashamed of a country that lets an industry-led lobby (the NRA) write and approve its gun laws.
I'm tired of the weak-minded contention that if a criminal don't use or find a gun, they'll use a bomb, or a knife, or a car, etc. That's just rationalizing.
I'm tired of the lie "guns don't kill people, people kill people." Nope, it's almost always the bullet.
I'm tired of people who rationalize that assault weapons are used for sport or for collectors. These things are not for hunting, they are designed for lethality to other humans. They are designed for armed combat, not for hunting wild game. These weapons have NO place in civil society and we have to stop the gun apologists from further proliferating them.
I'm tired of the angry, scared, paranoid and/or hateful people who think the government or the commies or their neighbor might break into their homes and steal their stuff or reign tyranny over their lives. These seem to be people who need guns, like a baby needs a pacifier. They need the security of something that gives them power over others. Possibly to compensate for feeling inadequate at just about everything else, or at least feel their masculinity needs a serious boost (Ted Nugent).
I'm tired of that other old argument that "we need to enforce the laws we already have." That's a load of garbage. Those laws are obviously ineffective. They're a smokescreen for true reform.
I'm tired of preachers and politicians blaming our "godless society" and lack of prayer in public schools for God not stepping up to the plate and saving innocent lives. How terribly sick and sadistic must these people be to say such things?
I'm ashamed that we live in a country so polarized by fear and demonization that our media and elected officials to keep buying and selling the same excuses. They stall for not taking action on our serious gun violence issues by parroting the tired old line "now is not the time to talk about guns."
Good lord, if not now, when?
How many innocent lives need to be snuffed out before we get sick of this?
Is turning our society into a bunch of fearful, twitchy, gun-toting vigilantes the only option?
This is NOT the world I had expected growing up back in the 60s and 70s. I had expected my children and grandchildren to be living in a more thoughtful and enlightened world. Instead we've gone backward. We're no better than gun-toting cavemen. We wage war with our neighbors and other nations as a first resort, even preemptively. Our TVs and entertainment are overflowing with violence and people exhibiting an almost total lack of dignity and civility. Our politicians and news media are no better.
I want better. WE need better.
Guns do not save lives. Those signs by the road are a lie and should be torn down. Anecdotally, one person in a hundred is saved by a gun, but countless more are sent to an early grave by an accident, a momentary impulse, or a well-planned act of psychosis.
This has got to stop or we are doomed. The News Gazette has not run one article on this subject online, obviously fearing the wrath of its readers. Very likely this post will be removed before anyone sees it.
I now await the scathing wrath of the countless gun-culture defenders who will be even so much more vocal in the coming days and weeks to defend their long-held position that gun ownership is a right. Their lack of shame is obvious. I invite them to go ahead and tear into me, and those like me. I'm secure in my position as being right and decent. They bear as much responsiblity for what this nation has become as anyone and their ravings are far past tiresome.
Pen, I suspect the latter. I [3]
Pen,
I suspect the latter. I don't hold out much hope for the U.S. I ran into a guy I went to high school with many years ago. It turns out, after years of talk-radio and a certain cable network, he holds a completely alternate view of history—on everything. I was baffled by it all. As much as I tried to discuss benign, ho-hum topics (even the weather) he insisted on doing verbal combat (mostly political) with information that was completely counter to reality. It's really hard to chat with someone that angry and infallable.
With so many Americans out-sourcing their brains to let propagandists do their thinking for them, I don't hold out much optimism for the long-term viability of this nation. Sorry, I hate to be such a downer, but that's what we've come to.
As to guns, I'll keep tilting at windmills and failing.
BTW, it's still "now." ;-)
One of my pet peve’s is the
One of my pet peve’s is the inappropriate labeling of threads. For some inexplicable reason, folks seem to come up with the weirdest labels for topics. This thread is no exception as the “Sandy Hook” event that lead to a renewed call for stiffer gun laws, was labeled “If there ever was a time it’s now”?
However, the title of this thread has grown on me a bit and the other day it became clear, that if there ever was time it “is” NOW! It is a clarion call indeed, because this is it! We will not have another chance, because unless we confront the powers who now move against us, we will be enslaved, completely and indefinitely.
If there ever was a time, it is now…
That we confront the Occultist that drive these things.
That we bridal the corporate powers that feed on our well being.
That we throw out the money changers that take our monies and then charge us for it.
That we follow the trail of sacrificial blood and hold accountable their practice.
That we hold accountable the politicians, who sell us out to the highest bidders.
That we dismantle the corporate media that propagates the lies and disinformation.
Assault rifles and high capacity magazines are the only thing that stands between us and tyranny, which is why they are so focused on getting them from us. This obvious police state move in combination with the Sandy Hook false flag, has millions of Americans waking up and standing in line for a mile, just to purchase more weaponry for the coming struggle.
http://www.fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/line-at-gun-show-is-a-mile-long-in-san-diego-del-mar-3-9-2013/37357/ [6]
So as the Sandy Hook event fades into history, with countless questions still unanswered and perpetrators are never held accountable, the media herds ignorant Americans along the path to our planned detention.
http://www.sott.net/article/245847-Media-Manipulation-Fox-News-Makes-Peo... [7]
However, as the worlds largest standing army of citizen militia, we possess the greatest number and variety of weapons, the largest stockpile of ammunition and the greatest resolve to resist, of any citizenry in the world – a significant stumbling block to the Illuminati’s plan.
http://www.fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/killing-america/37230/ [8]
So if there ever was a time it is now. The question remains though, will our fellow Americans awaken in time - or be found sleeping at the wheel in an enclosed place with the engine running?
"If Blacks had guns, they
"If Blacks had guns, they never would have been Slaves." - Larry Ward
Finally! Some real debate. All be it, a bit narrow.
The recent posts exemplify the divide within our society, and points to the ominous future moves of a world power that will confiscate American citizen’s arms, just like they have in every other industrialized country. However, there is still no discussion or debate of the 800 lb gorilla – psychotic drugs. How well programmed is that?
Like nearly everything in America today, it’s all about treating the symptoms and not the cause. Therefore, you make sure the media keeps it stirred through repetition and never report the real causes or offer a full analysis, while the politicians dance to the tune you choose. Because treating the cause, never increases the bottom line of those who rule.
A great example is the current Goebbelian focus on “Assault Weapons and High Capacity Clips”, key words and phrases, intended to strike fear into those programmed and trained to never question what they are told by “official” media sources. Key words repeated thousands of times per day, cornerstones of the mind control process in making people think that these are the problems.
Total number of deaths from all rifles – 323.
Number of People who died falling out of bed – 450
Militia – “an army composed of ordinary citizens rather than professional soldiers.” Ergo: having nothing to do with GOVERNMENT.
As always, “out of chaos comes order” – let the peasants thrash about, screaming at each other over something that has little to do with what causes these things. As in the case of nearly all these shootings, especially Newtown, with false information and a complete blackout of the specific timelines, responder audio transmissions and fact discrepancies associate with the Sandy Hook shooting.
Yes the truth will set you free and in recent years it has meant that you are set free from your mortal bonds, as people who do speak the truth or know too much about the truth, regularly die. Such as Aaron Swartz who was a social advocate that exposed Obama’s kill list process and actively demanded accountability.
Now there is John Noveske, a prominent rifle manufacturer, whose last face book post before he mysteriously died, listed all the school shootings where drugs were being used by the gun”men”. http://www.naturalnews.com/038616_John_Noveske_mysterious_death_car_crash.html [10]
Psychotic drugs, easily adjustable for strength with a simple fax, more powerful than ecstasy, drugs that the FDA has defined as causing violence and/or suicidal tendency.
http://fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/antidepressants-are-far-more-powerful-than-ecstasy/31079/ [11]
But then, addressing the obvious “cause” of such things is not permitted, and as trained lap dogs, our media is silent on this issue. Heaven knows you don’t want to interrupt a multi-billion dollar advertizing cash cow’s sensibility, with reporting on a silly thing like – the drugs that kill our children in mass.
http://consciouslifenews.com/psychiatric-drugs-sandy-hook-media-blackout/1147010/ [12]
Newtown was an orchestrated event, designed to instill terror among the population, like many of our recent events. Terror by design, with some designed by our most powerful ENFORCEMENT systems.
http://12160.info/profiles/blogs/award-winning-journalist-trevor-aaronson-digs-deep-into-the-fbi-s [13]
Events that have those who are awake, taking action and thinking of the future in such numbers, they have made bullets so scarce, even our ENFORCERS cannot buy any.
http://12160.info/xn/detail/2649739:BlogPost:1092727?xg_source=activity [14]
But the real debate, the real facts and therefore the truth is not something that will be talked about anytime soon. As such, substantive discussions are not permitted by the powers who herd our people.
http://12160.info/forum/topics/how-to-end-the-gun-debate-forever?xg_source=activity [15]
And so it goes.
Please remember that until they get the sweeping gun laws they are after, more of our citizenry will be slaughtered by them, until they have most of the population cowering in the corner and begging to give up our rights for a false pledge of security.
“Withholding information is the essence of tyranny. Control of the flow of information is the tool of the dictatorship.” ― Bruce Coville
I see that you were evidently
I see that you were evidently released. Either that, or you were on Christmas break. Conspiracy theories are back in long.... detail. I expect Buz to show up again also. You should end your comments with "Thhaatt's all folks!"
You don't want to take
You don't want to take responsibility for the harm guns bring to society. Guns have not protected us from "tyranny" and do not make our streets safer. Guns and their mis-use cost this society dearly. Guns have deprived parents of innocent children. Guns take lives and ruin lives. There is a huge cost to society that you ignore. Therfore, YOU bluegrass and those like you, by totally ignoring the problem or by wholesale dismissal of any viewpoint other than your own are responsible.
By questioning holders of opposing viewpoints (such as myself) ability to "handle the responsibility of liberty" you are questioning our patriotism and our love of this nation. You are pointing a finger of blame at others for something you share responsibility in. I find your accusations and blind ignorance to be insulting, not only to me, but to the concept of democracy and shared sacrifice.
The second ammendment holds that:
"A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
According to Merriam-Webster.com, militia is defined as:
1: (a)a part of the organized armed forces of a country liable to call only in emergency. (b)a body of citizens organized for military [20] service.
2: the whole body of able-bodied male citizens declared by law as being subject to call to military service.
The second ammendment makes no promises about what the average citizen may or may not keep in his own home. You're lucky to have what you do.
Stop insulting your fellow countrymen and stop pretending to be all wrapped in some kind of superior patriotism. You're just a blowhard whose lost an argument.
Okay, you got me. I give in.
Okay, you got me. I give in. All the name calling has finally convinced me, along with your incredibly insightful posting of the 2nd Amendment. You know, all I've ever watched in my life is Fox News, but they never put the actual words before up on the screen before. How on earth were they able to keep that "militia" thing a secret?!!
I think liability insurance is a great idea. I think the President should have the power to enact an executive order banning assault rifles, and all rifles, shotguns, handguns, bb guns, and pellet guns, and any and all ammunition. Because I own a firearm and support the Constitution, I take full responsibility for all the gun crimes that have occurred in this country while I've been of voting age.
In addition, I freely and irrevocably admit that I am, in fact, a blowhard. I wallow in my own blind ignorance. I do. I know. (slowly shaking my head looking down) I've been working on that one but it's just so hard to stop the wallowing once you've started. Furthermore, and this is really the worst and I have made a New Years Resolution about it which I've apparently already broken, I pretend to be wrapped in some sort of superior patriotism. Finally, I am lucky to have whatever rights BillD88 deems worthy of society, and I have just lost this argument. Ahhhh, it was good to get that off my chest. I'm not Catholic, but I guess this is what it feels like just after confession. Thanks BillD88! See, I bet you feel better too, don't you?
Glad you got that off of your
Glad you got that off of your chest, bluegrass. Your confession leads to your redemption. Peace be with you.
I've never advocated taking
I've never advocated taking away everyone's guns or all guns or whatever is keeping the cavalrydude awake at night. I simply believe some weapons are better off in the hands of soldiers and policemen, and not some twitchy doomer with a death-wish. I know many "libs" who've served our country in the military and when it's time to step up and do society's heavy lifting, you cannot classify people based on ideology. There are many examples of chicken-hawk so-called "conservatives" who failed to step up when duty called. How many deferrals did Cheney and Rush take?
But back to the subject, the military-style weapons have no place in our day-to-day society. When they they become a major factor in the mass-murder of children (and they have), they and their users need to be dealt with by a responsible, mature society.
If necessary for the safety of my children, hell yeah I'll step through that door.
I wonder if you realize that
I wonder if you realize that you open your statment with 'I've never advocated taking away.. guns,' and at the end you volunteer to lead the way into a private residence to do just that. Here is the underlying fact that just blows the liberal's minds. They just can't come to grips with this one, burning reality. There are millions of people who don't care what they think. I don't care how many liberals you know who served in the military, and I really really really really don't care which guns you believe are better off in the hands of the soldier or policeman.
Libs act like our society and the rule of law is some rock solid entity that will last forever, even though it has been around for only a few hundred years. The rule of law, that is to say the monopoly on the power of force by the government, has broken down many times in the course of even the past 50 years. The race riots and war protests of the 60's, Katrina in the south, the LA riots in the early 90's are only a few examples. We have idiots who riot over NBA Championships and Guns and Roses concerts. So what do you think would be the effect of a big ripple in the gasoline supply, or our food supply, or some kind of disease outbreak like a modern day Small Pox or Polio that would take time to get under control. Yes, I know, you blow off all these possibilities and call other people crazy and nuts, but they happen over and over and over again throughout history. Libs love to knock the United States down to size always droning on about how we're not better than any other country, and we wield too much power, and they scoff at people like me who believe we are the most benevolent people and the greatest country on the face of the earth. Until it comes to learning the difficult lessons of history that go against their personal belief system. Then, they believe, the U.S. can rise above those lessons, and can buck the trends. Which is it?
Blue, Why is it always [27]
Blue,
Why is it always "liberals this...and liberals that..."? Are you that simple-minded? Yeah, I'll "step through that door" if necessesary to try to bring some sanity to this crazy situation. BTW, "stepping through that door" was a straw-man posted by Cavalrymanwhatever to imply that liberals are somehow weak, or spineless or whatever crazy fantasy he has. Anyway, there is NO NEED for assault weapons in civil society. None, zip, zero, nada. You guys who are so bent on hanging onto your playthings that you'll endanger the rest of society are the ones who are not coming to grips with the dangerous reality. That reality is that we must start to cleanse the landscape of dangerous weapons.
Is that a slippery slope? Probably. I don't care. It is the excesses of the right and the gun lobby that have brought us to the point where schools are arming janitors. You have a one-dimensional approach and that is "more guns!" Maybe that's because you on the right are so afraid or insecure.
You cite uprisings and catastrophes as examples of where common people need access to all the firepower they can carry. That only makes problems worse. Katrina was a natural disaster that was worsened by an administration whose goal was to make government appear inept to solve problems so their privatization buddies could take over. They succeeded.
You don't know what "libs love" and you don't care. You like to make tired accusations and cliche-laden accusations. All you like to do is preach what Fox News and the NRA have brainwashed you with.
I don't know if you're crazy, but you seem to lack the ability to see the larger picture. As long as there are narrow minds like your who would rather polarize than problem-solve, the U.S. isn't rising above anything. Guns are a problem. Gun lobbyists and their whiny supporters are a bigger one.
You start with, "Why is it
You start with, "Why is it always 'liberals this.... and liberals that,'", and then proceed to fling a barage of right wing insults, repleat with a G-dub dig. So, greetings from a simple-minded, insecure, afraid, one dimensional, tired, cliche'd, brainwashed, Fox News and NRA loving, crazy, narrow minded, polarizing, whiny, problematic trouble maker. Impressive arguments, all.
Your use of the word "cleanse" is perhaps the most instructive of your entire argument.
So it is always the
So it is always the "Libs".... same old story with you. You list natural disasters, riots, and other assorted dangers in your reason to maintain guns with no controls. I really had started believing that you were a reasonable Libertarian. I was wrong. Your "Libertarian" identity is false. I have to agree with your statement "So, greetings from................. etc.". I expected more from you than that.
Awwwhh. I can't believe I
Awwwhh. I can't believe I lost my Sid Saltfork "reasonable Libertarian" status! If only I could just be more "reasonable," and say more things that you agree with. Isn't it reasonable to assume that your definition of "reasonable" might differ from another's? As for the "I expected more from you than that," I just want to say that really hit home with me. Come on, Sid, I expected more from you than that. Seriously. Let's be reasonable.
Okay. Let's knock off the
Okay. Let's knock off the dems, repubs, libs, and what ever else partisan political tags. Let's agree that regardless of the political views; people should discuss logical, and reasonable ways to decrease gun violence. Let's throw out the conspiracy theories, and absurd scenarios.
What is wrong with registering not only the gun owners, but the guns also? What is wrong with a gun owner having liability insurance for violence committed with their gun, or guns? Why are high capacity magazines needed? Why are semi-automatic rifles needed? Let's start with those things in a discussion. Please don't use the narrow vision view of the Second Amendment in the discussion. Let's discuss logical, and reasonable gun ownership.
While I appreciate your
While I appreciate your request to drop the the partisan tags, I just don't think we can have a reasonable discussion, because we don't start from the same place. I really do appreciate the fact that you're attempting to extend the olive branch and engage discussion, but you still start the conversation by assuming my side includes conspiracy theories, absurd scenarios, and ask that I not use my "narrow vision" as a premise for an argument. It's like an Obama negotiation where he starts out telling us how he's willing to listen to anyone with a good idea, but in the next breath he lays out what he will NOT do.
You ask why semi-automatic rifles or 'high' capacity magazines are "needed." I don't have to establish a need for a right protected by the consitution. Why do actors on Saturday Night Live "need" to engage in policital satire? Why do Catholics "need" to light candles? Why does MSNBC and Fox News "need" to broadcast their versions of the news 24/7? Does anyone "need" a Wendy's Baconator, a triple bacon cheeseburger draped in mayo and barbecue sauce?
The liability insurance issue is just a non-issue. What difference does it make if someone has liability insurance or not? Any liability involving a crime is going to be excluded, and how do you track it? Do we really need a Department of Firearm Owner's Insurance Tracking?
If there was an assault weapons ban in Illinois, 500 murders still would have occurred in Chicago last year. So now what?
It is estimated that possibly 36,000 people die every year from the flu [33] or flu related illness. The FBI reports 8583 firearm murders in the U.S [34]. in 2011. Where are the calls for mandatory flu shots? Those firearm murders are ALL firearms, not "assualt" rifles. Mandatory flu shots? Isn't that reasonable? I mean, according to the dumbest man to ever have been vice president, if it saves even ONE life it's worth it.
Having liability insurance is
Having liability insurance is a great idea. Also, it looks like a good way to sort out the "good guys" from the "bad guys" everyone keeps talking about. Pay your premiums, keep your guns. Looks to me like Bluegrass wants all the guns and none of the responsibility. Typical for the gun-nut types. It's always someone else's responsibility to clean up (or pay for) the mess.
Our constitution has been described as a living document. One where it can be changed (ammended) and hopefully improved over time. Cleaning up society's problems has no one quick fix. Solving our problems requires multiple approaches and long term work by all citizens. Guys like Bluegrass can't just sit around playing with their toys and mis-interpreting the constitution and expect the rest of the country to do things their way.
There are 300 million Americans now, not 13 million settlers living off the fat of the land. Changes and restrictions on gun ownership have to be made. Bluegrass needs to get in the middle or get out of the way.
I don't want the
I don't want the responsibility for what, exactly? I submit that BillD88, and most others who share his view cannot handle the responsibility of liberty, so they beg the government to take it from everyone. The Constitution is only a "living breathing" document to those who want to bypass it for their own cause du jour. There is a very limited chance of passing any gun control legislation in this congress, let alone amending the Constitution which requires a supermajority in the House & Senate, and 3/4's of the states to ratify. Then BillD88's figure since they probably can't pass legislation with that pesky elected republican controlled House, and since they cannot amend the Constitution, they're sunk. Until... they think, "Couldn't we just beg the Imperial President to send down orders from on high, bypass the living, breathing document, and unilaterally create law by executive order. Yes, a Great Leader!! That's what we need! Someone to push these irresponsible, toy playing, Constitution mis-interpreting gun nuts aside so that We, the truly enlightened, can finally, once and for all, cleanse society with our multiple approaches and long term work: The Grand Solution. Oh, and also liability insurance."
The Constitution was put in place to protect citizens and the United States from the BillD88's and their Wildebeest Mentality. Shout out to Bulldogmojo.
I love all the posts about
I love all the posts about the gang wars in Chicago as a reason to justify having big clips and guns. This by people who don't even know any gang members.
Vaccines don't cause autism. The only link was fabricated by a doctor who had his license revoked. It's a developmental disorder. It is not a mental illness.
And I really hate to have to say this but the flu shot...prevents the flu. I haven't had it since I started getting them. I also have a history of having the unlikely side affects. I haven't had any from the flu shot. Highly recommend it.
They really do believe that
They really do believe that the cities are going to go up in flames, and the residents will invade the outlying areas. When you talk to them in a one on one conversation; they will tell you that they have stocked up on guns, ammo, and food supplies. The fantasy has developed into ideology. They see themselves as Minute Men ready to fight against tyranny, and metropolitan zombies. Thankfully, they are individuals incapable of forming relationships other than online. They may committ murders by themselves, or with one other; but they do not march in the streets yet.
They are not the one shotgun hunter, or the pistol in the house home defender. They are the ones with multiple guns including assault rifles, and high capacity magazines. They are the ones who howl about the Second Amendment being kept in it's most ambiguos form just like their Bible. They cannot be trusted with responsibility due to their fellows crimes against the defenseless. The government of the people needs to keep an eye on them. Ideally; they need to have their military arsenals confiscated, and to be rehabilitated to join the ranks of good citizens. :) ;)
This from someone who has no
This from someone who has no understanding of our founding documents. We get our rights from our creators, not the government. Therefore the government has no authority to take them away. The 2nd Amendment is a restriction on the government, hense the words "shall not be infringed".
And as for the cities going up in flames comment, you don't get out often do you? Try visiting the middle east sometime. You seem like the type of person how might like it there. You remind me of the Mullahs, always preaching that people need to marytrs for the cause, but never straping on the C-4 themselves.
Since you people really want to start a civil war by taking away the guns, you need to volunteer yourselves to be the first ones though the door, and confiscate the guns personaly. Instead of forcing some Police Officer or Soldier into a moral delima between violating the oath they took, not coming home, or losing thier job.
You lefties are all the same, you always want some one else to do your dirty work for you.
First, no one is advocating
First, no one is advocating the confiscation of guns. Secondly, this is not the Middle East with mullahs. Thirdly, not everyone advocating reasonable gun control is a "leftie".
The John Wayne stuff along with the tag "cavalryman whatever number" does not make much of an impression since there is no logic connected to it. If you were in the 1st Cavalry Division, good for you; but you still are not using any logic in your comments. Carry on trooper.
Perhaps we should not allow
Perhaps we should not allow your paranoid fear of a dystopian future to affect our ability to enact some common sense legal regulations to better our dystopic present. (paraphrased from Jon Stewart).
Please do not use words you
Please do not use words you do not understand. "Assault rifle" means what??? According to Illinois elected officials is means the replica of a Civil War rifle used by the 1st Illinois division -- the Henry. My son is interested in the Civil War and was given such a gun as a 16th birthday gift. Now the uninformed fools elected in Illinois want to confiscate it. You seem to agree. You simply don't know what you are talking about. You don't know people who own guns. The comments on gun ownership, the meaning of words such as assault and semi-automatic used as justification to steal private property remind me of Hilter's rise to power in the 30's. The uninformed public agrees with verbage they don't understand because to their foolish, uneducated ears it somehow sounds good. Educate yourself. Wake up.
Educate myself. I had a
Educate myself. I had a shooting range in my back yard. I have access to an uzi. Get over yourself with the "you just don't know what a gun looks like so go away" bs. I've also had a gun in my posession when I was a crime victim. IT DIDN'T MATTER! The guy still committed the crime and then he went to jail. People hardly ever prevent crimes with guns but they are sure quick to cross the line with them.
Citizen1 is referring to a
Citizen1 is referring to a Henry lever action, 10 to 13 round, rifle which is not a semi-automatic rapid fire rifle with a 30 round clip. When the Second Amendment was created, muzzle loading flintlocks were the guns of the day. Times have changed greatly since that time. Comparing apples to oranges is an absurd defense for having rifles, and pistols that are made for killing people rapidly.
Yes Citizen1; I am a FOID card holder who was trained in shooting automatic weapons. I do not have them though. I have a 3 round shotgun, and a 6 round semi-automatic pistol. They are for home defense only. They are enough. I have no need for a rifle that can rapidly fire 30 rounds that can travel long distances. The Russians are not coming. You can stand down. Watch Red Dawn again, and again; but realize that it is a fantasy movie.
Bye the way; did you ever shoot that pesky coyote that roams on "your land"?
There you go again. You
There you go again. You say that you don't have a semi-automatic weapons then you admit to having a semi-automatic pistol. Which is it??? 30 rounds or 10 or 12? What is the proposed law? It doesn't matter. All are to be banned. To this I object. BTW -- the Henry is classified as a semi-automatic under the proposed law in Illinois. A gun used in the Civil War.
The coyote that roam the land I own thus I call it "my land" bought it on the road with a car.
Read my previous comment
Read my previous comment slowly................. I have a 6 round semi-automatic pistol. The proposed law banning your son's lever action rifle will not pass. The interest is banning semi-automatic rifles, and high capacity magazines. You cannot hunt deer with a rifle except if it is a muzzle loader. You can "sport shoot" with a rifle that has the ability to fire a round more than five football fields. You don't need high capacity magazines to do that.
Since the coyote did not understand the concept of "your land", or a road; he went to the happy hunting ground not understanding that he was trespassing. Please do not re-start the banning of automobiles as a illogical defense for maintaining the sale of assault rifles, and high capacity magazines. At least, your not spreading conspiracy theories about the evil government as others do.
Take a nap, you'll feel
Take a nap, you'll feel better in the morning.
Meanwhile, in the real world, you are not taking my guns. You're just another child of the 60's, so intent on trading in what works for what sounds good and feels good at the time. I like how you spend the entire article making disparaging remarks about average people who are only excercising their rights under the Constitution, and then pre-emptively try to shame those same people who might defend their position. What you really need to do is realize that your hippie generation has turned what should be a stong nation, into a people who are soft in the belly.
I don't care if you hunt, I don't care what guns you own, and I don't care what type of guns you think I should be allowed to own. Because you own a shotgun, that gives you the right to blame me for a crazy person's actions in Connecticut?
The whole Obama generation has fallen prey to the classic con of all time: The great lie. Just keep saying it, and even though it sounds stupid at first, if you keep saying it over and over and over and over eventually people will believe it. What's funny is that you go on about how this is not the world you expected back in the 60's and 70's, and yet here we are in the world you created. To much dreaming perhaps? But it's the gun culture that we need to scapegoat here, right? Who cares about the 500 murders in Chicago last year? It's easier to blame preachers and gun fanatics and Ted Nugent for all your problems.
You're right about one thing, my lack of shame is obvious. I am not ashamed to stand up for the Consititution in the face of those people who would seek to break it down in a quixotic attempt to solve problems that they created. AR-15's are the big windmill. Got get em STM.
Ah, "the real world"
Ah, "the real world" again..... Conspiracy theory, stereotypical descriptions of opposing views, and the adoration of the Second Amendment in the defense of owning assault rifles with high capacity magazines. "Bunker up... the hordes of criminals are a'comin!!!"
Peace, and love to you, Bluegrass. You are usually more eloquent, and logical in your comments. Gun control must really rile you up.
“The high office of the
“The high office of the President has been used to foment a plot to destroy the American's freedom and before I leave office, I must inform the citizen of this plight.” - John F. Kennedy
Buz,
The link you posted in Media manipulation was excellent, so I’m listing it here as well.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/12/20/sandy-hook-massacre-official-story-spins-out-of-control/ [54]
Ol’Tuck would certainly get a kick out of hearing the two of us are the same. Wonder if you‘ve seen him around Danville lately? Did I see a couple of articles from him in the paper or was I off my medication that day and just imagined it? (a “little” Amo-humor there for Sid)
The link on Sandy Hook was definitely a beginning in understanding what appears to be a false flag event. And you and I both know, the people who did this are capable of even greater atrocities, in achieving their goal of gun control. Anyone who assassinates Presidents and other high ranking officials, will think nothing of slaughtering everyone else.
http://rense.com/general86/pres.htm [55]
These folks certainly have a sense of humor, all be it a very sick and twisted one. Heard or read somewhere that the author of “The Hunger Games” lives in Newtown? Guess they wanted to send a message that resistance is futile, we will be assimilated.
Anyway, the event and subsequent threats by the President on the American people has not produced the desired results of a populous uprising against guns. In fact it has created an opposite effect, prompting those who see the clear and present danger, into actions of gun purchases.
Over the last several days, gun shows across the country have been packed with people buying guns and ammunition, even waiting in lines to get in. Dealers are selling out of assault rifles and some stores are standing room only. Even in the tinny town of Henning Illinois, it was standing room only on Thursday at the small gun store there.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/22/us-usa-gun-shows-idUSBRE8BL0DP20121222 [56] (Notice the – “Official" reporting)
"unofficial" Pictures of one mega store
http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/gun-frenzy-photos-show-how-quickly-stores-across-the-nation-are-selling-out-lines-out-the-door_12222012 [57]
Guess the Modern Minute Men and Women showed up to grab a few weapon before the Monarch Troops arrive.
In conclusion let’s look at the principles of those creating these things and understand why those who are awakened, now take steps to help insure our future freedoms, by arming themselves with weaponry comparable to the powers who come against us.
“Our Power does not know liberty or justice. It is entirely established on the destruction of individual will. We are the Masters. Complete indifference to suffering is our duty. In the fulfillment of our calling, the greatest cruelty is a merit. And through a systematic terror, during which every breach of contract, every treason, every lie will be lawful, we will find a way to abase humanity, down to the lowest level of existence. That is indisputable to the establishment of our dominance.” – Vladimir Lenin
Do you possess a current FOID
Do you possess a current FOID card?
God I hope not.
God I hope not.
“An evil exists that
“An evil exists that threatens every man, woman and child of this great nation. We must take steps to ensure our domestic security and protect our homeland.” – Adolf Hitler
And so it begins - the final push. All the other events of campus carnage, Congress woman shot, bloody theatrical events and Mall skirmishes, were mere warning shots across our collective bows. Now they move on to the raw terror of our children, to herd us into the pen, where Americans are blind to the real causes of these events and are trained through media manipulation to demand the ultimate goal – gun control. All the while our Government prepares for the final roundup.
Besides the hundreds of millions of ammunition rounds and high explosives ordered earlier this year for the likes of the IRS and other social agencies, the Obama administration just ordered 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition and sniper bullets for Homeland Security? Bullets intended for Americans - wonder what they’re getting ready for?
In all of this we have a controlled media, designed and engineered to manipulate the citizenry.. With President Obama stating his goal of keeping Sandy Hook, front and center, saying; “…task force’s proposals would make up part of the State of the Union address, in hope that the searing images from last week’s shooting in Connecticut would last in the public conscious and help advance eventual proposals.”
Horrific events and media feeding frenzy that include actors and mind control.
http://youtu.be/fxstqp3s5Ig [61]
http://theintelhub.com/2012/12/19/how-the-newtown-massacre-became-a-mind-control-television-event/ [62]
And should you question the “official” account of the massacre, you may go to jail.
http://fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/facebook-suspends-account-for-ques... [63]
You need to understand that for the New World Order to occur, the American people must be disarmed, otherwise it will be to costly to implement the final solution for America and the world. That is why our leadership regularly tells us the plan, if you will only listen
"Waiting periods are only a step. Registration is only a step. The prohibition of private firearms is the goal"--Janet Reno
As for our leaders saying they care about children as they shed crocodile tears, it’s easy to know how they really feel about our little ones. When asked in 1996 about 500,000 Iraqi children dying because of war sanctions, Madeleine Albright, ambassador to the United Nations, said; “This is a very hard choice, but the price - we think is worth it.”.
Like virtually everything in America today, we treat the symptoms and never the cause. The cause in this subject? A population trained from infancy to be good corporate citizen, to consume at all cost, to be the one with the most toys and believe any relative truth they are told. To then attack and demand action against that which is not the real cause, creating irrelevant debates that keeps everyone from focusing on the real reason.
In this instance, the real cause is a parasitic International Pharmaceutical Industrial Complex. A contaminating medical system that manipulates people into consumption of harmful drugs that provide maximum profitability to those who control us, consumption that is killing us, even when we don’t take the drugs.
Prescription-Drug-Induced Violence Medicine's Best Kept Secret.
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2012/11/prweb10120425.htm [64]
And what was Adam Lanza being drugged with? No surprise to those of us who actually think and research for ourselves.
http://www.blacklistednews.com/Predictions_Confirmed%3A_Shooter_Adam_Lan... [65]
So here we are, ready to take away guns based on an event that becomes more suspect by the day, (an autistic kid opened his computers hard drive and damaged it beyond recovery, possibly by a screwdriver?) To this, let’s look at history and what happens when gun control is implemented and the people no longer are able to protect themselves against high powered automatic weapons.
1911, Turkey, implemented gun control and then exterminated 1.5 million Armenians. 1929, the Soviet Union, where 20 million dissidents are then exterminated. 1935, thirteen years later, China began rounding up and exterminating 20 million. 1939, Germany, over 13 million exterminated. 1964, Guatemala 100,000 Mayan Indians were exterminated. 1970, Uganda 300,000 Christians were exterminated. 1956, Cambodia, that from 1975 to 1977, one million are exterminated. Total exterminations for the 20th century because of gun control – 56 million.
Japan’s planning to attack America never included an invasion, because much of the population owned guns and knew how to use them.
Of course our Illuminati leadership at the federal level will steer American families off the fiscal cliff, as they pass a 2013 defense bill of 633 billion, more than nearly all the rest of the world combined. Military funding that includes the Military’s ability to indefinitely detain any American citizen, without notification to their whereabouts or status.
In conclusion - the ultimate goal, with 20 young lives being just a down payment.
“We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected the promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world-government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the National auto determination practiced in past centuries"--David Rockefeller in an address to a Trilateral Commission meeting
Woo-woo..... conspiracy
Woo-woo..... conspiracy theory, and skipping medication.... nonsensical ranting. Enter the other personality, buz, stage right; and the third pesonality Shapemaster stage left. Turn up the floodlights, and spotlight the prophet center stage.
The topic of the article is gun control, and mental health. See the previous commentor demonstrating the need for both.
You all bring up very good
You all bring up very good points and no, it is not so simple a matter as a crazy person owning, buying, or stealing a weapon. I used the term "gun buyer" without clarification. I know Lanza stole the guns, but the NRA and their gun manufacturer backers see us as buyers/customers. Using sloppy terminolgy like that is just another knee-jerk reaction of mine similar to my distaste for being referred to by the media as a "consumer" instead of a "citizen."
I've noticed Fox News is really running the "blame video games, movies, social media, etc." talking point very intensively. Brace yourselves, but I'm going to say those points are valid too—but as with any complex issue, only part of the problem.
Our culture of violence has many parents. We can all share blame and responsibility for shrugging off many of these causes. Still, in the end, we are a society which is prone to violence.
What do we do with individuals who are prone to violence or illegal behavior? We, as a society, take away certain privledges. We take the keys from drunk or impared drivers, the vote and weapons from felons. Sex offenders are restricted as to where they can live or hang out (and rightyly so). We even carefully zone the placement of bars and liquor stores based on proximity to schools and churches even though their activity is lawful. These few examples would seem to be precedent for more stringent control of firearms.
Unfortunately this control must be self-administered and too many well-financed sources and politicians will stop it. I predict more watered-down, feel-good legislation but it will have all the teeth of a hen.
For those who would advocate the total elimination of firearms (which I personally doubt will ever happen), Guns are akin to a poison or pathogen in our environment. It will take generations to work them out of the system. In the mean time many people will suffer and die. In the long run, given the will and common goal, it can be done—in theory. The problem lies in our divisions. Until we have a common goal of a better, safer, and more peaceful world, nothing will change. Sorry about the pessimism and thanks for letting this old "knee-jerk" vent a little.
'...given the will and common
'...given the will and common goal, it can be done...'
It has been done, by Hitler, Mao,...same results.
Let's look at Australia, which banned guns several years ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8RDWltHxRc [70]
Or England, both of these countries are similiar to the US:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKdBxpKqUvs [71]
It seems that you and SS prefer those countries' gun laws to ours.
What about Switzerland? Wanna know why it has the lowest crime rate in the world?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nf1OgV449g [72]
STM, I agree 100% with your observation that the mentally ill have basically two ends, either in prison or the streets. A result of the enlightened ones closing mental hospitals (homes). But again, I can't stress enough that if you'll notice, most os the recent mass shootings in the last few years involve younger perps who have had some experience with prescribed mood-altering drugs. Here's a list: http://ssristories.com/index.php?p=school [73]
First time I've ever been
First time I've ever been grouped with Hitler and Mao! Probably the first time they've been equated as well. Buz is correct in the assertion there are many factors in the gun-violence equation and it's too easy to place blame squarely on one source. Still, the fact remains that access to guns in general, and assault weapons in particular is too easy and poorly regulated. Simply stated, guns are a huge contributor to violent and accidental deaths in our society.
So, after a few days of mourning mixed with anger, I'm going to put my action where my mouth is. Not only will I voice my support for permanent reinstatement of the assault weapons ban (including high-capacity magazines) and for repeal of the gun manufacturers exemption from lawsuits, but I have an additional idea.
If I have to have insurance to own a car, then similarly, insurance should be required to own a gun. In order to qualify for that insurance, you must provide proof of trigger locks or a gun safe. You must be willing to submit to safety checks for compliance (hunters are checked in the field, large trucks are required to get safety checks, restaurants have health dept. inspections, etc., why not gun owners?
Anyone found in violation will lose their weapons until compliance is established. If over 60 days, the guns will be destroyed. No guns should be returned to the marketplace.
Premiums will be based upon potential of the weapon for harm. Similar to a 4-door grocery getter having lower premiums than a high-horsepower crotch rocket.
Felons and serial violators of gun-ownership obligations would be denied the right to gun ownership altogther. Repeat drunk-driving offenders are denied licenses, it should be the same for gun ownership. These are only a partial solutions, but gun owners must bear greater responsibility for the un-intended consequences of gun ownership.
We need to quit hiding behind rationalized interpretations of the second ammendment. If one were to take a constitutional "purists" perspective, a "well regulated militia" might simply be an armory in every community or several within each state, where only white adult males were issued guns and only for the explicit purpose of defending the community/state from attack. I'm sure that is not a very popular interpratation, but it smacks of 18th century America.
As a gun owner and a parent, my mind is made up and my convictions on this issue are crystal clear. I doubt there is any argument which will change my mind after the events of last Friday. No family, anywhere, should ever have to suffer such horrors. We should do everything in our power to make sure such things never happen again.
SaintClarence27 is right
SaintClarence27 is right about Switzerland. Switzerland has a compulsory military training of 26 weeks for all young Swiss males; or a 1 year public service requirement for disabled, or objectors to military service. Young males with dual nationality are exempted from the compulsory service unless they choose to do it. In the past; the recruits would enter the Swiss military reserves after completing training, and keep their weapon at home. That changed a number of years ago. The weapons are issued to them now at local arsenals for renewed training, or national emergencies. Switzerland has a mental health system which is superior to the system existing in the U.S. also.
Europe has mass murders; but not on the scale, or frequency of those in this country. The Europeans are shocked by the gun culture existing in this country. It is a regular topic of conversation when talking with Americans. Possession of a gun in Europe is a serious crime.
Yeah, the perps "experience
Yeah, the perps "experience with prescribed mood-altering drugs" is that they stopped taking them. STM is being logical, and rationale. You are not. Your blaming drugs prescribed for mental illness. Your grasping at straws with Hitler, and Mao. Try doing some research besides youtube, and Fox News.
Also, Switzerland severely
Also, Switzerland severely increased gun restrictions years ago.
I now await the scathing
I now await the scathing wrath... - STM
Calm down, STM. You're having the same reaction that many have. I was also sickened and saddened by the evil that visited those poor defenseless young souls that morning. But before we make the leap of taking vengeance, just as we did on the morning of Sept.11, 2001, let's analyze the facts before we point the finger of blame.
First of all, Adam Lanza did not purchase a gun or guns. He murdered his mother, stole two of her guns, then drove her car to the school. So, although he was indeed irrational, he was not a 'gun-buyer.' I don't know when the last time was that you purchased a gun, but you can't just go to a store and buy one. You have to be approved for a FOID card first, then when you show the clerk your FOID card and purchase the gun, that clerk will have you fill out a federal form that will take some days for your name to be approved. You will be notified that you have been approved, then you can pick up your gun.
Having a lobby for any industry write the laws that affect that industry is the standard mode of operations in Congress. No news there.
Criminals will not go through the legal process of purchasing a gun, they'll just break into a gun-owner's home and steal one.
22 Chinese schoolchildren hurt in stabbing spree
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/12/15/china-stabbing-school.html... [79]
Guns do not save lives. - STM
I really don't think you've seen the studies that prove that they do. I believe you're speaking from your gut. Perhaps you remember all the predictions of incidents of road rage becoming murder scenes, as well as other tales, when Florida legalized concealed carry in 1987. Of course all those predictions turned out to be false. In all actuality, the murder rate in Florida dropped from 11.4/100,000 in that year to 5.2/100,000 last year. Which is exactly why every other state besides Illinois has adopted a conceal carry law of some sort. One can't argue against the facts. Be reasonable, not emotional. Guns do save lives. http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2012/12/mass-killings-stopped-by-armed-citi... [80]
Please watch this video (it's not long) and rethink your position: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhO0Pul_FcE&feature=player_embedded [81]
Read this story:
'I Am Adam Lanza's Mother'
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/16/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother-mental-... [82]
In my opinion, STM, you're feeling of 'shame' probably has more to do with the feeling of helplessness.
Finally, if feeling secure is your aim...
'Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.' - Ben Franklin
I now await the scathing wrath of SS. :)
BTW, I counted four stories on this website about the Connecticut shooting.
I too don't want to incurr
I too don't want to incurr scathing wrath. Buz forgot one key thing. From all reports I've read, Adam tried to purchase a gun using his brother's ID card. He was denied. The existing gun restriction worked. He obtained his weapons later by stealing them.
In our society we're so concerned about the freedom and liberty of all and about fostering one's self esteem that we fail to protect society from the few who are violently mentally ill. There are no long term facilities from such people and when young people are housed in the few facilities available, the mentally ill have the right to dischage themselves upon turing 18. Often such people end up in prison after committing crimes. How many people have to die needlessly before we recognize that there are few programs for violent, mentally ill people prior to the time they end up on prison. Something is not right here.
The knee jerk reaction to take away everyone's guns is not the answer. It is as offensive as calling for an effort to lock up all people with Asperbers.
I have no scathing wrath.
I have no scathing wrath. You, and your alter ego, Pen, have summed up the mindset of those who support increased gun violence, and the need for mental health services. I doubt that either of you, or both of you, have any idea how you scare people with your illogical comments. Adam Lanza would have agreed with you.
The Second Amendment does allow citizens to bear arms. Just like the First Amendment has been changed to reflect changing culture, the Second Amendment needs change also. Citizens do have the right to have a gun. Mentally ill citizens should not have that right. Just as a driver's license requires a written test on rules, and safety along with a vision exam; a FOID card should have a written test on laws, and gun safety along with a mental health screening. Assault rifles, and high capacity magazines need to be banned. A qualified, licensed citizen does have the right to have a gun; one gun. All of this will not prevent an evil act from occurring again; but it will reduce the number of evil acts.
"We are not going to achieve
"We are not going to achieve a new world order without paying for it in blood as well as in words and money." -- Arthur Schlesinger, Jr.,
STM,
An excellent, thoughtful and insightful beginning to this subject – well done.
Yes, we need a national discussion on the subject of why our young men are committing such heinous atrocities. We need to address the triggers for such things and reassess how we may curtail them.
There are known values involved in this, such as a nation obsessed with war on everyone. A nation with holiday’s that increasingly glorify those whom we sacrificed in the obscenity of glorified gore, a nation that through its militism, creates enemy’s, were none before existed. A politically bankrupt nation who spends more on their war making than the rest of the world combined, who murders women and children with airborne robot machines, as they leave their former soldiers to rot on the streets in homelessness.
Then we have the violence based gaming industry, whose life-like video images, provide endless hours of decapitation, body part separation and blood splattering “entertainment”. Addictive gaming, where you can play in real time with others of a like mine, opponents or partners who join in orgies of total blood sport carnage, whooping and laughing as they gut and slaughter other human beings by the dozens, hundreds or millions.
As our young men practice on these slaughter training systems, they listen to satanic music, steeped in occult ritual chant, singing along to Ra, Ra, Ra, Ra, the Egyptian Sun God. Then, when not slaughtering each other in mortal combat, they watch music video’s that subliminally cements Luciferian thinking into the mind, with visual imaging of repeated occult symbols - music and imagery that glorify debauchery and death.
But the real smoking gun in all of these horrific events, regularly spaced in time and geography around the country in critically timed advance of scheduled gun control debates – are the drugs.
The singular constant among all the shooters, besides having a weapon, is their use of mind altering pharmaceutical drugs, now prescribed in ever increasing amounts by a medical system controlled and herded by the pharmaceutical industry. Drugs that come with labels warning of violent and/or suicidal tendencies, drugs to be prescribed in ever greater quantities, by the hordes of “counselors” now descending on the traumatized town.
http://fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/the-true-source-of-random-and-mass... [86]
Switzerland has the highest gun to citizen ratio in the world, yet one of the lowest crime rates, so shouldn’t they be killing each other more than we are?
Today, nearly half of the sheeple take flu shots that do not work. Most are manufactured in other countries without any oversight, containing unknown materials and administered by ignorant medical personnel who don’t even know the singular virus the shot is allegedly designed to kill. And that’s the most public of all medical procedures - vaccines whose negative side affects can be lethal
http://undergrounddocumentaries.com/autism-made-in-america-full-version/ [87]
Yes, there will be a curtailing of citizen arms and it will be citizenry who does it to themselves, because that is they way they are programmed to perform, to be fearful, to look at something and be terrified of it - an easy thing to do.
In a child you simply hold an object as you scream at them and they soon fear even the thought of it. To reinforce submission even more, let them become attached to a pet and then slaughter it in front of them - just part of the training of “Monarch Slaves”. The same is true in society, simply terrify the population on a regular basis and they will do anything you want.
Combine all of this with social media manipulated by physiology operations (phyops), wherein a handful of people maintain fake personal accounts in critical social groups. Who can then sway, manipulate and prod into action, millions of people, who think they are actually communicating with a real person. Not to mention HAARP and its possible role, to say nothing of the field operatives, who like the men stopped by police fleeing the Sandy shooting, regularly evade detection or detention because of their status.
So yes, we have much to discuss and many threats to assess. But the real causes and threats will not be part of that discussion, because they are the very tools involved in subjugating the population and are therefore off limits to the manipulating media, our owned politicians and our paid off medical professions.
"No one will enter the New World Order unless he or she will make a pledge to worship Lucifer. No one will enter the New Age unless he will take a Luciferian Initiation." - David Spangler, Director of Planetary Initiative, United Nations
You summed it up. Good
You summed it up. Good comment. Others should speak up now for gun control instead of passively sitting aside.
I agree, good job Pen...
I agree, good job Pen...