Klee: Faith no more
CHAMPAIGN — As Illinois slumped to the locker room after a 74-70 loss to Northwestern, the repercussions seemed to extend beyond the Big Ten standings and the Illini's NCAA tournament prospects.
In terms of Selection Sunday, this wasn't a devastating loss. No, really. The 'Cats are a top-50 RPI opponent and probably won't count as a bad loss on Selection Sunday. Hate to tell you this, but these Illini (16-7, 5-5) weren't going to win the Big Ten, either.
This was worse than those things. This was another loss in the realm of public perception. Illinois, you know, never loses at the Assembly Hall to the purple team from up north.
Well, it didn't used to. But as the crowd began funneling to the exits — with over 2 minutes left, no less — it again became clear the disenchantment among the fanbase is growing thicker by the day.
"It would be an understatement to say it's a disappointing loss," coach Bruce Weber said afterward, quietly.
Sunday's loss indicated Illinois is headed back to its usual status — on the bubble and in the middle of the pack in the Big Ten. Its conference record A.D. (After Dee) is now 49-49, and, with three home games remaining, the Illini must steal a road game to finish .500 this season.
"Illinois remains a No. 9 seed (in his mock bracket), but the brutal road ahead could force it to take up residency in Bubbleland," said Yahoo! Sports bracketologist Brad Evans.
"To say the week ahead is huge would be a gross understatement."
But fans weren't looking forward to road games at No. 20 Indiana and No. 23 Michigan, who happen to be 26-1 at home. They simply wanted to see Illinois beat Northwestern for the 29th time in their past 30 matchups at the Hall.
For myriad reasons — the most critical of those being the Illini's shoddy defense — that didn't happen. John Shurna scored 24 points, and the slow-starting Illini didn't hold a lead until 15:57 was left in regulation. Illinois' biggest lead was four points.
It was telling that the loudest cheers erupted during the halftime show. (No, not Madonna's). A group of tiny rope-jumpers — nicknamed the Firecrackers — earned a standing ovation.
The Illini were in the locker room and unable to watch the awesome display. And most of the crowd (listed at 15,461 but noticeably smaller than that) didn't stick around to see the Illini lose to the Wildcats at home for the first time since 1999 and for just the second time since 1979.
"We lost a tough one last time (to Illinois, 57-56 on Jan. 4). And it's turned into a pretty decent rivalry," said 12th-year coach Bill Carmody, who won for the first time at the Hall. "So I think our guys feel like that's one that got away."
"I think there was definitely a little rivalry to it. They came in and beat us at our place," said Reggie Hearn (career-high 20 points). "As soon as we lost that game we're saying, 'When we come back down there we've got to get it back.' "
Several Northwestern players posed for pictures on the Assembly Hall court after the game. Meanwhile, the Illini were left to wonder how it's possible to beat No. 9 Michigan State on a Tuesday and give Northwestern (14-8, 4-6) its first road win of 2012 on the following Sunday.
"I hate to say it's a wake-up call," Weber said. "But you've got to have a sense of urgency and you've got to come and play."
"It's on us," said sophomore Meyers Leonard (21 points, nine rebounds). "We've got to keep playing."
In the Illini's 42-41 upset of Michigan State, freshman Tracy Abrams hit a critical three-pointer to save the day. On Sunday it was another freshman from the Chicago area — Benet Academy product David Sobolewski — burying a three-pointer that gave the 'Cats the lead (56-54) for good.
"That time we didn't do what we were taught," Weber said of the play.
Was it a lack of effort? Northwestern did prevail on the Matto chart (25-19) but coaches didn't feel effort was the issue. Like several other losses — the blown lead at Minnesota, the collapse at Penn State — it seemed to be a basketball I.Q. issue, among other things.
The shot chart revealed Northwestern made 15 field goals in the second half. Nine were layups, most a product of the back-cuts and patience that trademarks the Princeton-style offense. The Illini never seemed to figure out how they were getting beat on defense.
"Coach had us prepared for it," said Brandon Paul, who had 22 points. "But we didn't come out and do what we needed to do to win the game."
As Northwestern raced to a 21-13 lead, the coaches panicked and ignored the same reserves that keyed a 57-56 win at Evanston. Only one reserve — Sam Maniscalco — played more than one minute. Myke Henry, who had six points and three rebounds in their first matchup, played one minute in the second. The Illini's greatest advantage over the 'Cats — depth — was a moot point.
"I'll be honest, in practice, they couldn't guard us running their stuff," Weber said in explaining his shortest bench this season. "So you're a little leery (of using the reserves in the game), there's no doubt."
...and the Great Tate is, thus far, silent on this. He could not participate in the locker room show after Sunday's debacle on the Fighting Illini network because "he had to work on his column". Probably has writer's block thinking how to trash Illini fans for being negative about the program after losing another game against inferior competition. I imagine two weeks from now, or even sooner, he'll write a column calling for Weber's head and state that he was always disenchanted with him.
Well said, peterborich. As we speak Moses Saint Tate is likely finishing a column shifting all blame to fans for daring to express themselves on boards and call in shows created for fans to express themselves.
If only fans would get into lockstep behind him and never dare disagree with Moses!!
"...but coaches didn't feel effort was the issue..."
Wow. Really? After holding MSU to 24.1% shooting, NW lights it up for 60.4% from the floor (75% from inside the arc and this is a team that shot 53% from the free throw line).
NW out rebounded the Illini 24-22 and out "Matto'ed" the Illini 25-19.
So if it wasn't about effort, what was it about? Perhaps the starters could've used a breather then? After getting 53+ minutes from the bench against Gonzaga and 27 minutes from the bench against MSU, the Illini get 13 minutes against NW? Even NW with only a 6 man rotation managed to get 20 minutes off of their bench. One might've thought that once the NW players starting picking up their 3rd fouls that you'd run some fresh bodies at them and see if their fatigue in trying to keep up with fresh legs would cause them to pick up more fouls and have to go deeper into their bench... apparently not.
So if the coaches didn't feel effort was the issue, then surely it must've been poor coaching. This team seems to play to the level of their opponents. When the Illini are playing a "good" team, they step it up and play closer to their potential. They play to win. When the Illini are playing a team that they're expected to beat, it looks like they're playing not to lose. There's a big difference and the attitude comes from the coaching staff. We couldn't use our bench against NW to try to wear them down like we did against Gonzaga because... NW is a better team? I don't think so. It shows a real lack of confidence in the younger players and at a critical time in the season where you'd hope that they've developed into roles where they can contribute minutes. That's all about coaching and developing players. Well coached teams get better as the season goes on.
While the wins against OSU and MSU were great, it could be argued that the Illini would've been better off losing to OSU and MSU and picking up wins against PSU, Wisconsin, Minnesota and NW. We'd be 7-3 in the B1G right now with 3 more home games left to play. I think that most fans are going to feel a bigger let down from the 4 losses than the 2 wins. The 2 wins also just emphasize the fact that this team has some real talent and can play with anyone in the conference which only makes the losses to teams in the bottom half of the conference rankings all that much tougher to take.
I've said before that I expected this team to go 12-6 in the B1G. 7-2 at home and 5-4 on the road. Strangely enough, that's still mathematically possible. The Illini should finish 7-2 at home. If this team can beat MSU and OSU in Champaign, they should be able to beat any other team in the conference at home and yet we're coming off of a loss against NW. Losses to Minnesota and PSU on the road obviously don't bode well. I think that Indiana is going to be a huge game for this team. It may be the most hostile environment that they'll face this season. A win there could go a long way to restoring this team's confidence and a good showing through the end of the season.
I've also stated that I like Bruce Weber and want to see this team do well. I haven't given up on our team but it's going to be important that this team doesn't give up and finishes this season strong. If the Illini end up on the bubble or worse, the noise from the fans is going to be incredible. I think that a football team like finish could lead to a similar result in terms of the coaching staff. If the players care about their coaches, they're going to need to put in a tremendous effort every game. This still could be a very good season.
Go Illini!
Weber's shifting game plans show his desperation and again lead to the obvious conclusion that he hasn't the slightest clue how to coach. Northwestern scored 16 times in their last 20 possessions. Obviously the starters were fatigued. Doesn't matter if you have Jordan, Chamberlin and Russell out there, if they are dead tired, they won't be up to the job. Sub at a minimum, but know what your starters are capable of so they don't die on the court.
Wait.. The Great Tate has spoken..he states in the paper that the Illini played as well as they could on Sunday...Apparently he was taking a octogenarian nap during the vast majority of the game when Northwestern was penetrating the lane at will, dishing the ball out to open three point shooters or giving back door cut up after back door cut up for easy scores. Yep, Tate, it was all Northwestern, besting the heroic efforts on our boys and coaching staff. Go back to sleep
I guess I have to eat my words about loving this team. Tastes kinda bitter. I still think this is an incredibly talented, athletic group...Weber seems to be the weakest link. The way he slows the game down doesn't play to their strengths, he seems to have a complete inability to adapt and change strategy, and the basketball IQ of his players is at an all time low. When Illinois / NU has "turned into a pretty decent rivalry," it tells you everything you need to know about how far this program has fallen under Weber. A rivalry with a perennial NIT team?? Please.
Although mid-season coaching changes are rare in college bawsketball, making the same decisions over and over and expecting the different results is - well, you know...
Beginning the re-tooling - today, right now - delivers the following messages:
- To the current players: mediocrity is unacceptable at the U of I
- To the fan base: you deserve a better product for your support
- To prospective coaching replacements: start thinking about this opportunity
- To prospective recruits: we are raising our standards - please join us
And who knows - maybe we have the next head coach already on the payroll.
let's see. . .one totally inconsistent offense, one poorly executed defense, NO adjustments, continual problems with basic fundamentals like dribbling, passing, pick n roll, etc, all of which are acquired skills developed individually or in practice through repetitive drills are ALL the responsibility of the coach and his staff to insure their learning. I have seen NO improvement in these areas this season. Since the start of conference play, Sam M has been a big negative, DJ is going downhill, and our Frosh sit, except for Abrams. Henry NEEDS to play 20 plus minutes a game and NOT be used ONLY as a sub for Bertrand, if fact they would likely be better if used together. The offense is consistent ONLY at dribbling and passing around the perimeter with an occasional attempt at pick n roll that fails because the ball handler goes too wide to use the screen and the screener forgets to roll and then throwing up a 3. On defense, all 5 players are getting beat constantly in one on one moves which is compounded when we have NO weak-side help or ANY weak side rotation to the ball. PLEASE Mr AD, find us a new basketball coach!!!
I have gone full circle in about a month. But i think i have finally settled on the idea that BW has until the end of next year, at that point,i think everyone else is done as well. It is obvious that he is feeling the heat and is hearing what some of the fans are saying, but he cannot calmly and rationally think and aply them during a game. Alioneye has articulated that he is a worrier and it affects every thing else he does. Alioneye appears to be dead on.
This season has become a wash. In hindsight, we are lucky to be were we are at with this bunch. High highs and low lows. It is obvious that everyone bought into the media hype and expected more than the coach and players can deliver. For that, many of the writers owe the team, coach and UofI fans an apology. They got our hopes up after 3 years of sub-par performance and frustration led us to expect upper classmen type leadership. For getting my hopes up and buying in to this load of bombastic crap, i apologize and they should apologize for perpetrating it the public as well.
This team has no killer instinct. We were expecting the urgency,drive and grit of upper classemen led teams like we have come to expect with names like Archibald/Griffin/Krupalia/Johnson/Sergio/ Dee/Deron/Powell and its plain for all to see that we dont have it. They really are too young both in age and playing experience as evidenced by lackluster performances after big wins. Losing to Northwestern after beating the #9 NCAA BB team? A team we have OWNED in my lifetime and at one of the greatest home court advantage venues in college basketball? WTF??? Lack of playing time over the last few years has just killed the development, confidence and experience of our younger players. We thought we would have a battle tested team and admittedly what we have is a bunch of confused gunshy recruits. Paul is really a Soph-Junior in terms of playing time and it could be argued that Bertrand, Abrams and Leonard are all really freshmen-sophmores. The offense has been stagnent for a couple of years, we are basically playing without a 4 and a 1, we cant pass, penetrate or shoot the 3 effectively and consistantly, the games are to close and nervous nellie doesnt trust youth to learn and develop in games. We were told we were going to run, pass, substitute, move the ball and pressure the ballhandler. We havent done any of those things, and thats mostly on the coaches. The coach cant adapt and shake it up due to fear and uncertanty in his mind. So here we are, a coach who isnt calm in a crisis, stubbornly clings to his default tendancies, who lacks confidence in himself and his players and a team that lacks some fundementals, experience and is not quite ready for prime time.
Next year is the date of destiny for this team and the coach. I dont think MT makes his move this year, he lets it play out and become obvious ala "Zook". If ML leaves he officially becomes Jerome Richmond the 2nd as in immature, delusional head case and possessor of narcistic personality disorder who left early for the NBA and saw his career fall off a cliff. He will make his 1st round minimum pay for 3 years and then you will read about how all his coaches had issues with his immaturity/skills and how he is now playing for the Roman team Dipshitius Maximus. All this talk of him intering the pro's right now is delusion. He cant hold his position against muscular Big 10 small forwards in the league how is he gonna do it in the pro's? He only has 1 or 2 moves. The average NBA center will have scouted the game film and have ML wearing his A$$ for a hat inside of 10 minutes. He is 3-4 years away from making any impact at the pro level. Better spend that time here learing some skills and putting on some muscle. He has amazing potential (so did JR), but he is not ready for the NBA. If he leaves, BW is probably gone as well because he will have no big men with any meaningful game time next year and ML (instead of JR) will be known as the guy who screwed the team and got the coach fired. Two senior guards and no post game will not carry this team in the Big 10 next year. Without off-court headcase JR this year, our issues with the 4 position are obvious. With ML the Illini are probbably one of the dozen favorites to make it to the final four next year assuming our issues with 4 and 1 positions get solved. Without him, we have groundhog day again and maybe make to the dance and that wont cut it for most fans.
Its crazy that the legacy of this team and the fate of this coach will probably hinge around the decision making of two immature children like JR and ML, but there you are, it is what it is. Spend the summer wisely and get it together team because next year is likely The Valley of Decision.
^^^^^ What a clueless viewpoint. If Bruce Weber is fired, it will have been Bruce Weber that got himself fired. NOT Meyers. NOT Brandon or the Bench. Sheesh, another clueless adoring Weber lover. Comparing Meyers to Jerome Richmond and calling him names while making excuses for Weber? Shame on you WEBER LOVERS, have you no dignity. You and your holiness Weber throw the innocent players under the bus and have no sense of morality, truthfulness and responsibility. It is ultimately and realistically Weber's responsibility for failing. Thank God the athletic director isn't smitten with a two-bit mediocre coach that can't improve his team, make them play smarter, get buy-in, inspire effort and coach a roster with high rated talent to success. Stop attacking players who haven't been taught correctly or enough, some already in their 3rd year. When the players have talent and still can't perform it's the coaching!!
Well this is a new one, I have never been confused with a Webber apologist before? I have never liked BW's style of offense, play calling, tactical manuveurs, etc. Look it up. I and others have spent so much time on it, it would be enormously redundant to reguritate it again. I think the coaching decision making is horrible. I just dont think given what just happened in football, MT pulls the trigger this year. I am just trying to deal with the reality of the situation. I am as disgusted as you are. I just decided to go back and look at how we got to this point and i dont like it either.
They are going to make the defense of "look where we would be if JR and ML were here? We would be in the Final Four". You might as well get used to it and there is going to be a lot of people who will sympathize with that view. Then you have to figure that running a program that is as "clean as snow" may count for something with some donors, trustees and MT. I just see and have heard a bunch of people coming to the conclusion that they are going to wait til the end of next year and nothing anyone says or does is going to change that one bit. If ML stays and the Illini make a run, BW looks like a genius and he stays (shudder). If ML leaves and they fail to make the Sweet 16 or run into a juggernaut in the second round, he may be gone.
I am just telling you what the people in the middle are saying and they are probbably the swing votes in this decision.
Good teams lose players every year and reload. JR and Meyers Leonard are the two best talents at Illinois since Deron Williams. Talents like them don't stay long and regularly need to be replaced, that's just how it works. Yes JR was immature and did not apply himself and therfore wasn't ready for the pros. Meyers has mostly been in need of more one on one instruction and more game experience, but the talent and physical ability have been there. If Weber could coach his other players how to get Meyers the ball more regularly, then ML would likely be leading the team and the Big Ten in scoring. Regardless of how well Weber manages to utilize Meyers rest of this season, the pros are already convinced that Meyers has a pro future and may even be a lottery pick in this early summer's draft. Yes, Meyers could benefit from another year of experience (with hopefully a different coach) but Meyers wants to help his mother be able to afford a delayed, much needed operation and take care of both her and his brother so I doubt Meyers stays when he get can get the money he needs now. That is his decision and he has to do what is best for his family. It's not being selfish to help your mom.
I don't care what umpteen excuses Weber apologists make. It's all just noise anyway so I can tune them out easy. What counts are the AD, trustees, boosters and President.
Ipsofacto "one of the greatest home court advantage venues in college basketball"
Are you kidding? Have you been to any of the other big ten schools? The program and the area are outdated and far behind most of the other big ten schools. The Illini and Assembly Hall need a serious makeover. Where else are the best seats either empty (lower A section behind the crush) or taken up by media. Seriously, are there really that many media that need prime seats? When I walk into Asembly Hall I feel like I am walking back to the 80's. The ILL-INI chant is not exactly an intimidating factor...maybe back in the day. Go to a game at MSU, Purdue, Wisconsin, Indiana, Mich, you will see an exciting program and venue. Sorry Illini fans, the team and the hall are near the bottom of the big ten.
We got beat not by a more talented team than us but by a team that was in a zone. Northwestern ran their offensive patterns to perfection and all of their scores couldn’t miss. If Northwestern can continue to play like this they will make the NCAA tournament.
The assembly hall should no longer be a place that opponents fear to play at. This is not because the talent Illinois is putting on the floor is inferior to any opponent. This team while inconsistent has proven they can play with anyone in the country. Proof of this is playing Missouri down to the wire and beating Michigan State and Ohio State. What this team doesn’t have is a fan base that will try to will them to win. The assembly hall as far as sound has reverted back to what it was in the sixties. That is sad but it is the truth.
This Illinois Basketball team needs to understand, yes, there was a time at the assembly hall that when the team was playing bad that the fans would unite behind the team, rise in unison and start cheering and willing them to get over the hump. But to be truthful that never happened as often as people like to let on. Heck, I remember how the fans despised the now beloved Lou Henson, and many fans called for him to be fired. This was especially true after we lost in the first round of the NCAA tournament to Austen Peay. The big difference was back then there was no Internet where today people take delight in ridiculing coaches and degrading players. Back then it was done in bars and word of mouth. If then we had had the Internet Lou Henson would never have lasted all those years as the head coach at the University of Illinois. So players don’t count on support from the so-called Illini Nation. They will get on board when you win and get to the final four but anything less than that they will turn their backs on you.
With that said there still many fans out there that want to support the team and see our coaches have a long and successful career at Illinois. For these fans this lost really hurt. It is a game on paper we all figured Illinois would win. But the thing of it is there really are no terrible teams in the Big Ten and across the country in NCAA basketball parity rules. It used to be in any conference there would be three or four teams that were the doormats for the other teams in the conference. Well, that is rare now and frustrating for fans at Illinois, Michigan State and Wisconsin. All of these teams have seen their bubble burst by loosing to teams that they figured they would beat.
When I look at the Illinois loses in the Big Ten I see two games that the refs took away from us, Penn State and Minnesota. A more mature team would have figured out how to win those two games. There was one game that we played that we just looked terrible. That was at Purdue. A loss against Wisconsin at our place, which we just, could not shoot. And now the lost to Northwestern that really hurts. Now the team has a chance to go on the road and play the games for themselves. They don’t have to worry about the fans. While their backs are up against the wall in most of these away games they won’t be favored to win so in an odd way the pressure is off of them. Can they turn that corner and steal a couple of road victories. Like I said previously they have shown they can play with anyone in the country.
What has happened in the past can’t be changed. But this is the perfect opportunity for the team to put it all together, take that next step in their maturity process and make a statement in the conference and with the selection committee. Will they do that? Heck if I know. What I do know this is a team that is slowly maturing and slowly finding their identity. With the possible exception of the game at Ohio State this team could win any game left on their schedule and if they don’t continue to mature they could lose any game left on their schedule. It will be interesting and hopefully fun to see how it all plays out. Go Illini.
the name of the game is to put the ball in the basket more times than the other team! what the heck is so hard about that? fire weber now and kick all the non-players off the team and dont play another game this season and completely clean house i mean get rid of everybody and rebuild this program from scratch.
Yes that will work because it certainly impacted MT's decision with Zook. Way too many empty seats in MS. And after all those years of a waiting list for sbasketball season tickets, you can walk right up and purchase them now. Can't even get a sell out when a nationally ranked team comes to AH. No longer the House of Paign. So vote with your wallets and MT will have to take notice.
To all the Weber bashers I think that you forget that the UI is already paying double for coaches salaries right now whith Zook gone and the hire of a new coach. That is quite a load on anybody's budget. Therefore, I suggest that one of you bashers start a bank account so that all of the Weber haters can contribute. I think that is about the only way that you will be rid of him. By the way the collection needs to be in 6 figures.
Good to see the Purdue trolls out in full force lobbying for us to keep the "Keady Curse" around for a few more years. I'm sure they'd love nothing more than seeing Weber complete the demolition that he started. Thanks but no thanks. Let him go back to cleaning chalkboards or picking up Keady's dry cleaning. Change is coming soon.
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