Tate: For Thomas, it's better to be safe than sorry
Why, we wondered, would athletic director Mike Thomas spend $90,000 for a search firm when — supposedly — he already knows his top Illini basketball candidates like the palm of his hand?
If Virginia Commonwealth's Shaka Smart had a wart, Thomas surely was aware. And the same goes for top candidates like Anthony Grant (Alabama), Buzz Williams (Marquette) and John Groce (Ohio) as Thomas works down the list.
On the other hand, if you're going to offer $20 million over eight years, or anything close to that, something beyond due diligence is essential. Christmastime rival Missouri offers a nearby example why.
Going back to Norm Stewart's retirement, Missouri took a chance on 32-year-old Duke assistant Quin Snyder. What started well turned south and ended with 42 NCAA violations leading to his forced resignation midway through the 2005-06 season. Then Mizzou turned to Mike Anderson, only to discover last year his heart was in Arkansas.
Some say the Tigers rushed it after Bruce Weber declined interest and Matt Painter left them standing at the altar. Days after Frank Haith was hired — with Tiger fans aghast over his 43-69 ACC record — they learned his Miami program was under investigation.
These inquiries take time, and while the NCAA snooped, Haith put together a dashing, high-scoring quintet that turned him into the nation's hottest coach. In votes cast prior to the NCAA tournament, he was named Coach of the Year by the U.S. Basketball Writers Association and is one of four finalists for the Naismith Award.
Missouri's a prime example
Missouri, a favorite of many bracket aficionados, was 30-4 when the Tigers were shockingly sidetracked by Norfolk State. That bad news followed a March 15 announcement that Miami guard Durant Scott must serve a six-game suspension for impermissible benefits handed out during the Haith regime, this penalty similar to the three-game suspension served by center Reggie Johnson in February. Meanwhile, the case simmers as NCAA sleuths try to make sense of Miami booster Nevin Shapiro's claim that Haith approved a $10,000 gift to recruit DeQuan Jones.
Face it, as outstanding as Haith has been in coaching the Tigers, he wouldn't have been hired if Missouri brass had prior knowledge of these accusations.
That said, Haith may survive this ongoing inquiry, even as his administrators cringe. Nor should next season's Tiger team be counted out even as seven seniors depart. Mizzou has one of the nation's premier point guards in Phil Pressey, will get 6-foot-9 star Laurence Bowers back from injury and has four transfers ready to play including 6-3 Keion Bell, a former 16-point scorer at Pepperdine, and 6-5 Auburn transfer Earnest Ross. They'll probably be favored to beat Illinois for the fourth straight year.
Thomas, meanwhile, is guarding against a $20 million mistake. He wants his top choices fully vetted. No surprises, please.
Of my personal list of 10 candidates, one has seemingly made a number of enemies while three others have vague rumors and innuendos circulating around them. These kinds of scuttlebutt may be the work of jealous rivals. There may be no truth to any of it. Because I don't have the time, contacts or subpoena power to find out — much less the $90,000 — I can only wonder. Thomas is making it his business to know.
Did Smart receive a formal offer?
Because of the media feeding frenzy that followed an unsourced Sun-Times report Wednesday — it swept the nation — Smart was obliged to publicly renounce his interest in the Illinois job. It will therefore be widely believed that he had been interviewed and held a formal offer.
It is my opinion that neither of these things happened. This mating dance was still in the preliminary stage. I'm confident Thomas intended to meet him, but I don't believe it had happened yet.
So here are my questions: Does Smart's denial of Illinois' non-offer stand as sufficient to meet the UI Board of Trustees' diversity requirement? Do members of the board expect Thomas to make a legitimate tender — as he apparently did to Houston football coach Kevin Sumlin — to a minority prospect before going any further? Are there obligations restricting Thomas before he takes the next step?
Jerry Colangelo told our enterprising beat writer Paul Klee that he "is color-blind" on basketball issues. That's the way it should be.
Loren Tate writes for The News-Gazette. He can be reached at ltate@news-gazette.com.
the Shaka thing is not really thomas' fault, but he did fail to get his #1 and #2 men in FB and now has failed to hit a homerun w/ his #1 BB coaching prospect. Forget about the people he fired, I'm beginning to wonder if this guy can deliver the bacon himself as he has such high demands for success from zook & weber. I hope we don't go down the Iowa pathway in BB and look back 5 yrs from now at 'Weber ish' results. Basically I'm wondering if Thomas can lead by example. we may have been better off to offer Vic
the FB job and jerrance the BB job
Oh come on. The headlines in the media were 'Smart rejects Illinois offer'. Get real. Of course Thomas wanted him and fans wanted him and he was the obvious #1 target especially when you consider a couple of the trustees obviously want a black coach hired. Dont act like the fox and the grapes, and now that we cant have him, act like Thomas didnt really want him.
I think Thomas was exactly right in targeting Smart. I just wish he wouldnt do this so publicly, it should be handled through back channels and an offer shouldnt be extended until the decision is known. The way KU handled Self and the way RG handled his hires. One would think that Thomas would have learned something from the way Sumlin toyed with him to get better offers elsewhere, but maybe not. Besides, it doesnt make us look good to be rejected publicly.
sorry, but it makes Thomas look like he swings and misses several times before 'settling' on someone else, and it makes UI look second rate. We cant get who we want, so we will settle on whatever our poor salesman can get. If Thomas could go out and actually get who he wants, and not make an offer until he knows it will be accepted, none of this would be an issue.
And by the way, next season, if Beckman comes out and lays an egg and loses a lot of games, it WILL be remembered that he wasnt near our first choice. Ditto for the hoops coach, if he loses some games, people WILL remember that we tried to get Smart or Grant and they said no. Hell, people are still blaming RG for hiring Bruce and not Matta, and that was almost 10 years ago, do you seriously think they will forget who we tried (and failed) to hire less than a year ago. Believe me, if Sumlin takes Texas A&M to a BCS bowl game, or Smart takes VCU back to the sweet 16, i am going to go way out on a limb and say that people WILL be talking about what could have been.
"Believe me, if Sumlin takes Texas A&M to a BCS bowl game, or Smart takes VCU back to the sweet 16, i am going to go way out on a limb and say that people WILL be talking about what could have been."
Agreed. That's what I think every day that Kansas is a top 10 team and still playing in the NCAA tourney while we sit at home scratching our collective butts. Had only Guenther swallowed his pride and ponied up the cash for Self, that could be us.
hahahaha, riiiiiight, the only reason Self left was because of money. It wasnt like he thought KU was a better job (as did every national commentator at the time), nope, its all RG's fault, because you know for a fact that if Self had gotten more money he would have stayed.
Whatever.
Maybe its just internet fodder or not, but I have heard tons of posts regarding how down this team is and just what are they going to do next year. Now Loren Tate(who should know better) somehow already has Mizzou favored in next years game. This team has more top 100 H.S recruits returning than any team in the Big Ten outside of Ohio State and Indiana. Lets be objective 17-15 record, 2 top ten wins, a november tournament championship and a win in the ACC/B10 challenge at Maryland. Even in January this was still a top 20 team. They still had a better resume than 95% of all college BB teams. There is no doubt that they fell apart at the end, but I will bet anyone on here that they will be in the tournament NEXT YEAR. If Meyers Leonard chooses to return this is a top 25 team and very easily a top 10 team(whoever the coach is). If he doesn't they will still be in the tournament probably somewhere beteween a 4-9 seed maybe even higher. People need to understand(this is not like Illinois FB) they have gotten rid of Weber, not because of a lack of talent but because of an abundance of it and his inability to succeed at a higher level with it. As a lifelong Illini fan I saw a team being held back by their coach/coaching philosophy not ability. Shaka whoo??gives a rats ass if he doesn't want to come here. Illinois BB will be around healthy and vibrant probably a lot longer than any individual coach. I dont give a f### if you disagree because you(including Loren Tate) obviously don't know anything about college BB or have gotten caught up in all the negative BS.
GO ILLINI
http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/16/most-valuable-college-basketball-teams-...
As someone mentioned this is all that matters.
Good grief. I guess Loren is going to complain about the trustees in every single column. In the past, we've interviewed minority candidates just to satisfy the requirement when everyone knew who the main target was. The Thomlin hire in Pittsburgh is an example of following the process correctly and letting a guy prove that he's the best candidate.
The trustees knew that they weren't preventing Beckman from getting a job. They made a point, and they did it in public. (Rather than behind closed doors like institutional racism has done it for decades.) The last I heard, those same trustees said they were pleased with the way Thomas was following process.
houstonillini84--we read it because we can. Do you actually believe that no one should read anything if they disagree with it? That's so Reeky Santorum.
Many read Moses Tate for the same reason they slow down going by a car wreck--it's hard not to stare at it.
Will you just admit you think everyone should think alike, look alike?
LOL, talk about people in glass houses throwing rocks. Whining Illinois fans complaining that Tate complains? Please.
And frankly I agree with criticism of those trustees. We should be hiring the best coach available that fits our criteria. Period. We should be open to all candidates, without any bias. Period. But that isnt what those trustees want, they just want a process that yields a black candidate. We offered Sumlin the best package we could afford, and yet trustees voted no because we hired Beckman? If our process was racially biased, why in the world would we make our first and best offer to Sumlin???? And now our first choice in hoops was Smart, and apparently Grant was second. THAT'S racial bias? Please.
This isnt the 1960s. I do not believe that anyone in the UI administration or AD dept is racially biased. Institutional racism? please. This isnt about *preventing* racism; this is about racial preferences for the new hire and putting a priority on hiring a black coach in lieu of pure coaching criteria. And that's a shame, because racial preferences diminishes the achievements of black coaches who WERE the best rather than those that were picked because of their race.
In the past, we all knew who was going to be hired and then they'd interview minority candidates for compliance purposes. That's just not a good way to find the best candidate. The interview is part of what determines whether you're qualified. It's about process. Tate is being obstinant. I alluded to it above, but I'll give you a quote from Oliver. "We met last week with Mike Thomas in closed session. Without going into detail, we as a board, not just Lawrence Oliver, are satisfied the proper emphasis is being placed on diversity." He also goes on to say that this does not guarantee that an African-American will get the job.
I think Brad Stevens would be a good hire, but his style of play is no faster than Weber's or the B10's in general. Personally I think that would make him MORE effective rather than less, but some fans want a fast paced style, and I think Thomas is showing a preference for that.
I agree. Hire the best coach. If he happens to be black, great, but hire the best coach. If he happens to play a fast paced offense, great, but hire the best coach. If he plays different defensive schemes, or sticks with the same one, who cares, hire the best coach. If he yells, or stays quiet, who cares, hire the best coach. HIRE THE BEST COACH and let the other stuff take care of itself.
Thomas has said nothing in public that I have read. He has a search firm and is vetting canidates. The Shaka thing was led by the internet and it is doubtful Thomas met in person with Shaka. There is no validation that he did.
As for the mental midgets who blame Thomas give it a rest. The guy has walked into a hellhole and is clening house as well he should. Martin from ND should have been the football coach but we will see how Beckman performs. There are several good canidates for basketball. Perhaps they can help Bruce with his tie collection.
Newspaper and media headlines were 'Smart rejects Illinois offer'. It wasnt a random tweet or an internet forum post, thats how it was reported in the media. The point is that Illinois made an offer, Smart rejected it, and now everyone knows that. That comes across very differently than a private indication of no interest that doesnt even reach a hard news outlet because its just conjecture.
And can you let the bruce thing go? Why take pot shots at the guy. He's gone. The issues now is finding a new coach. Sooner or later someone is bound to accept one of Thomas' offers. Maybe he will just send out mass emails with the offer details and see who bites.
Whoever it is he’s got to be better than Weber.. I guess I missed the public offer you say MT made… I didn’t see it..as to any indication of no interest, private or otherwise.. that comes from Smart, not Thomas.. and frankly I didn’t catch his public press conference turning Illinois down you talk about . so all I read was a lot of speculation.. but feel free to post the link were either Thomas or Smart say an offer was extended…
doesnt matter if he has been quoted, what matters is that newspapers are reporting it as such - that an offer has been rejected - which means news is leaking out. It leaked out with Sumlin, it leaked out with Smart. Hmm, common thread here is.....
RG didnt make good football hires but at least he kept a lid on things, and when one of his targets didnt (Samscum), that guy was crossed off the list and he moved on. Thomas gets played for days by these coaches. Sumlin should send Illinois a commission on the increased salary we helped him squeeze out of A&M.
You just answered your own question…duh!!! Maybe the leaking party conveniently leaks it to get a better deal.. Sumlin got more $ from A&M, Smart got a raise from VCU.. you don’t need to be a rocket scientist from Houston to realize, the party who has something to gain from a leak isn’t the pursuer… it’s the pursued.
riiiiiight, the fact that it happened in Thomas football search AND now in his basketball search, and suddenly it must be the other side. It couldnt possibly be someone in our AD dept, or on the board, or on the search firm, or someone else from our end. It MUST be because the other guys did it, not just once but twice, in different sports.
Wow, the excuses people will make. Unbelievable.
When RG did the search, it was strictly confidential. When Samscum leaked it, RG was out of town that day, and no offer was made. Obviously Thomas doesnt play by those rules. Either someone on our side leaked it, or else someone on the other side leaked it and Thomas turned a blind eye and continued to wait (it was reported for days that Smart had an offer and was considering it). Come on.
There doesnt need to be a news leak for Smart to walk into his AD's office, explain the situation, and get a raise. There is no reason that AD is going to pick up the phone and call the media. Sounds to me like in Thomas' searches, a lot of people are in the know, and its easy for leaks. I mean, if the Board of Trustees has been briefed, and Trustees are giving interviews about being happy with the process, well when that many people know what's up, its bound to get out. Quite different from when RG made his choice, had his interview, and made his recommendation to the administration. Much less chance for leaks that way. (Which is why the media always complained that they couldnt get any scoops, LOL)
Where the reports came from seems to matter a great deal to you since you keep blaming Thomas despite not offering a shred of evidence. Media are just doing their jobs. Who knows who their unidentified "sources" are? Could be someone else within the athletic department, could be agents, could be ... ??? I don't know, and neither do you, yet you keep blaming Thomas specifically for being so public when in fact he's offered no public comment whatsoever.
How many stories of this (or any) nature are kept under wraps these days? Do you have the first clue about how modern media operate? I'm a College of Communications graduate and a retired newspaperman. Used to be that stories couldn't be reported as fact without at least two corroborating sources, and in most stories at least one source had to be identified by name. Now, BECAUSE of Twitter, Internet forums, blogs, etc., traditional media have relaxed those standards or else they get left behind and look like they're not doing their jobs. When one outlet reports a story, others pick it up and run with it without even knowing whether the original source was credible.
Get a clue.
What Houston doesn’t understand is there probably was no leak… how do you leak something everyone knows already?? The choice of Smart (warranted or not) stood out like a sore thumb.. there wasn’t ANYONE with half a brain who thought Thomas wouldn’t pursue him.. was Houston surprised we went after him?? it wasn’t leaked… it was understood… Smart used it to sweeten his deal at VCU and gambled a super elite job opens soon… good luck to him…1 or 2 bad years and he aint going to be so hot anymore.
is there a way to ignore certain posters on here? if so, i gladly will. But the point is, I like reading HQ, I like reading what Tate thinks even if I dont agree. A few of you hate him so much, its absolutely beyond me why you read his articles or even more, why you comment on them. Its kind of weird.
Houston,
There are two people that post here that are unhappy individuals. They have some weird vendetta against everyone who writes for this website, and most things associated with the University of illinois. I'm guessing they were denied admission. They accuse the writers of not being open minded but criticize anyone who agrees with their premise. They are hypocrites. They have no intelligent thoughts and their favorite target is an 80 year old man. Where I'm from this is what is commonly referred to as a LOSER.
Go Illini.
houston,
The trouble with wishing for zero banter about Bruce Weber is that his time at Illinois created the environment we're in. I clearly understand there are other potential negative factors (admin trouble, views on chicago recruiting, facilities, rural location) for any head coaching candidate.
However, I really do feel the biggest negative is where the program is now. Only NBA'er: Deron Williams. No top 25 finish in 6 seasons. One NCAA win in 6 seasons. Without Meyers Leonard, a candidate could question what potential returning players offer. Incoming recruits like to see NBA development and NCAA appearances, a supply Illini basketball has been lacking in both areas.
I've had respectable banter with you on more than one occassion. Unfortunately the only thing that will slow Mike Thomas hate and hate of Bruce Weber's footprint on Illini basketball is the announcing of a new coach. Tim Beckman can't whine now about what Zook left behind, he took the job knowing all of it. Same will be true with the new hoops coach.
It's just been too long since Illinois basketball had a really good season. Bruce Weber's program left this footprint, and Mike Thomas has to try to hire his way out of it. Maybe MT hasn't done some things right either. But I for one was getting tired of watching the Illini play as they did under Coach Webers guidance.
I think we all want Illinois to do better. I like Bruce, I think he's a good coach, but I agree he had to go, he had lost the fan base and sapped the enthusiasm from the program. In any event, that is water under the bridge now.
Whats on the agenda NOW isnt Bruce, its THomas hiring a new coach. And frankly I am tired of all the swings and misses. He talks the talk, but he hasnt walked the walk. Football was a little bit understandable, but the way Sumlin played Thomas like a fiddle was a little humiliating. Now we swing and miss on Smart, and then Grant comes out and says he isnt interested. That isnt so understandable. Illinois is a much better hoops job than a football job. We should be able to hire one of the best coaches in the country. No we havent had recent success, but when we hired Lon it wasnt any better, and Lon never even got us into the sweet 16 and then we hired Self, who was the top up and coming coach that year. I guess i dont understand the problem for Thomas, or why people make excuses for him. Maybe he is limited because of the agenda to hire a black coach, but hey thats part of the job, and if he has a great white coach, he should hire him.
I guess i dont understand the problem for Thomas, or why people make excuses for him.
Maybe some people would at least like to see one of his coaching hires put a team on the field or court before they start criticizing him about his hires? (Yeah, I know, pretty unreasonable isn't it?)
Mike Thomas has a pretty good track record of hiring coaches. I'm optimistic about Coach Beckman taking over the football program. First choices don't always work out (e.g. JaMarcus Russell). I'd rather have a coach that wants to be a part of the program than one who doesn't.
I understand that Brad Stevens' wife has a very successful law practice in Indianapolis and that they are very happy at Butler. We may be grasping at straws again just like with Shaka Smart in thinking that money is the main motivator. Sometimes life is just bigger than the bucks.
maybe, but funny how that only seems to work one way. We lost Lon because of NBA money (also because of other reasons, like recruiting) and we lost Self because of money (also because KU is unquestionably a top 5 job). Bruce was loyal when he could have gotten more money, but we fired him. Now all of a sudden every good coach is loyal to their mid-major. Fine,but its Thomas' job to make them unloyal, and to sell our program. If we could hire Lou Henson and Mike White after the horrendous 70s, we should be able to hire a top college coach into our hoops job which is considered in the top 15-20 in the country.
https://twitter.com/#!/DanBloeme
It's time for Mike Thomas to seriously consider and offer the head basketball coach position to get ready for this, Reggie Theus! Theus is starting to make a lot of sense if you want a splashy hire, someone that has done well in college coaching and also comes with the strong backing of Lou Henson. One thing is for sure, Reggie sure won't be dull, unlike his milquetoast limp predecessor.
. . . . . . . . . .. . . . . Read more > http://t.co/yP3r2vh3
To all of you who have written blogs about MT and Illini Sports....Kudo's Its ashame that we as Illini followers who bleed orange and blue may or may not see a national title in our life time. Its like watching the Cubs...they bring in the messiah (Epstein) the parallels are almost identical he brings in a no name coach with baseball experience but not real managing experience. Hmmmm sound familiar here??? I'm willing to give MT the benefit of the doubt right now until these coaches fail to prove themselves. Then its MT's turn to go on the hot seat as a short lived AD.
Which leads me to another point whats so wrong with coaching at ILLINOIS? Hmmm lets take a look, what seems to be the catch point most of the coaches say a broken program well whats the definition of that. Broken usually means it can be fixed or replaced usually so what other underlying problem is there that the AD or coaches and the board doesn't want us to know? Is it the mid-west weather, or the fact that were right in the middle of the recruiting center against the Michigan's, the Ohio St's and Wisconsin's of the world not to mention Notre Dame, Penn St. and the list goes on and on. Is there another problem which is going to involve us again with the Evil NCAA that's been kept a secret... Hmmm don't know but could it be. The possibilities could be endless to what we think. I don't blame Loren for stiring up the hen house it needs to be stirred up atleast it gets people and fans to think and say what they feel has to be said in their hearts and minds. For one I'm glad he stirs things up its nice to see that he isn't afraid to say whats on his mind right, wrong or indifferent.
Its easy for us to make the decisions of who should coach and why they should come here to coach but there has to be something else like magic in order for them to perform above expectations and to continue this way to excel and I do beieve that this is possible if we can get coach's who believe in our school, kids and our fan's and have the willingness to stay here like the coach K's of the world and the Izzo's. The same for football too!!!.
GO ILLINI and Cubs(Theo bring me a world series before I pass on....)LOL
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