Lunardi: Illini miss 2013 field
ESPN's Joe Lunardi released his 2013 NCAA tournament bracket on Monday — and it didn't include Illinois.
Indiana is a No. 1 seed and Michigan State and Michigan are No. 2 seeds in his projected bracket. Other Big Ten teams in the field: No. 3 Wisconsin, No. 4 Ohio State, No. 7 Minnesota and No. 12 Purdue.
The program John Groce left to come to Illinois — Ohio — Is in as a No. 11 seed.
Illinois State is a No. 11 seed.
We heard a lot about how the new coach could recruit, and it would be nice to see some evidence of that. If anything we seem to have taken a step back. And I am very worried about the PG position, unless Tracy can play that role a lot better and stay healthy, we could be in big trouble, and what's more, it could be several years until that is addressed. The new coach has some time but not several years to reasonable implement his system.
Kansas St. was an 8 seed, which I think is incredibly low for this season. Kansas St. has a fairly talented team and I think that they will buy in and excel in Weber's system. I have a feeling they're going to have a really good year. Perhaps 4 years from now they won't, but I think Kansas St. certainly has the talent to get a high seed and even make a Final Four run. My prediction is Kansas St. finishes 2nd in the B12 and winds up as a 3 seed.
On the other hand, unfortunately, I do think Lunardi is right about our basketball program. We aren't a good defensive basketball team, we aren't a good shooting basketball team, we are a terrible passing basketball team, we have a bunch of players who don't like penetrating, and we have a bunch of players with very little court sense. To be honest, it would be very hard to see this team suddenly become a tournament team based on all this information and to top it off we lost a very solid player in Leonard.
A few years back, I thought this would be our year- with Brandon Paul and DJ Richardson being seniors and the highly acclaimed Abrams at the point, I figured we'd have one of the best backcourts in the nation and the best backcourt in the B10. And when adding Jereme Richmond and Meyers Leonard to the front court, I really believed we'd have a national title contender. Unfortunately none of this worked out as planned. Richmond? Well, we all know what happened to him. Leonard? Gone to the draft. DJ Richardson? A shell of his former self who went from a can't miss freshman sniper who played solid defense to a tentative shooter playing middling defense. Brandon Paul? A player who I saw as a young Dee Brown- explosive, quick hands, feisty defense, but inconsistent, who is as inconsistent as ever. And Abrams? Well Abrams actually has been quite good in his role, though he is not the passer or dribbler he was touted as coming in. Sometimes things just don't work out as planned. This is one of those things. Unless some miracle happens and we suddenly become able to make open shots and not turn the ball over on horrible entry passes, I just can't see this team making the tourney. And it won't be on Coach Groce either to be honest. At this point in your basketball playing career, you either have those skills or you don't. And up to now, our team has showed almost 0 capability of consistently having those fundamental skills.
Too bad . . .If Coach Bruce had been retained by the evil Mike Thomas, Meyers Leonard would have stayed for his Juinior Year and we would be a competing for a National Championship . . . .
OK, then, maybe competing for the Big Ten Championship and a Sweet Sixteen appearance . .
OK, then, maybe competing for a sixth-place finish in the Big Ten and a #12 seed in the Big Dance . . .
But, certainly, better than what Joe Lunardi is predicting for that awful new staff . .right?
Go Illini . .Go Coach Groce . . .Prove the doubters wrong . . . .
Doubters? arent we ALL doubters? He hasnt proved himself at this level, so there is no way of KNOWING one way or the other. We will all just have to wait and see, and in the meantime, at least hope to see some progress on recruiting. Then in the fall we can hope to see development of the young players in his new system.
"Doubters? arent we ALL doubters?"
Really? John Groce had an Ohio team within an OT period of the Elite Eight in the 2012 Tourney, why should I doubt his ability to coach? Do you really believe that his Ohio team had more talent on it than the Illini did last season (with a first round NBA draft pick)?
I was a staunch Coach Weber supporter, but it was time for him to move on. If I have any doubts, it's about how well Coach Weber will do at KSU. I think that the January 22, 2013 game at Bramlage Coliseum will be quite telling.
Houston, in case you need a refresher here are some more reasons, beyond last year's debacle, why Coach Weber isn't at Illinois any more:
2010-2011 Losses to UIC (54-57), PSU (55-57), IU (49-52), NW (70-71)
2009-10 Losses to Utah (58-60), Bradley (68-72), Georgia (67-70), NW (68-73), Minn (60-62), Dayton (71-77)
2008-09 Losses to Clemson (74-76), PSU (33-38) (@ home! How do you only score 33 points on your home floor?) and then topped it off with another loss at PSU (63-64)
2007-2008 Losses to Miami, OH (58-61), Tenn St (58-60), and twice again to PSU (64-68, 51,52)
If you like "Keady Ball", then the coach that you *really* want is Matt Painter, because he has simply owned Bruce Weber. The last 7 times that the two coaches' teams have played against each other, Painter has come away the victor. Yes, the Illini are riding an 7 game losing streak against Painter. Since Painter started coaching the Boilermakers, Coach Weber's record is (4-10) against Purdue. Of those 4 wins only 2 didn't go into OT.
I wish Coach Weber the best of luck at KSU and I fear that he's going to need it. I'll always have great memories of the 2004-05 team and they're one of my favorites of all time and some of the credit for their success has to be given to Coach Weber. Overall though, I'd have to rate Coach Self above Coach Painter and Coach Self is now at Coach Weber's rival school. If nothing else, Coach Weber is going to have to lose his own self-admitted "playing not to lose" approach that I believe significantly contributed to the team's downfall last season.
It's well past the time for the Illini fans to move beyond the last coach. If you can't get over the change, go ahead and cheer for KSU, otherwise get with the program already and support the Illini and Coach Groce. I'm optimistic about the future of the Illini Men's Basketball Program!
not sure what warranted that book of a reply. Just pointing out that Groce is not proven at this level. What he did at Ohio was very good, but Ohio and the MAC are not UI and the Big Ten. I mean, are you trying to say he is a sure thing? There arent any sure things. Even proven BCS coaches sometimes fail at their new job.
Anyway, I will wait and see what happens with Groce. I hope he does well. I am not as convinced as you that he was the best choice, and forgive me if I wait until he wins here before I pronounce him a winner.
> not sure what warranted that book of a reply.
Oh, gee, I don't know. Perhaps it was all of your negativity?
1) Don't assume all fans are "doubters" like you are.
2) 2013 recruiting isn't even over yet with some excellent recruits still considering Illinois, but you want to already deem it a failure (perhaps for years).
3) Your beloved former coach has moved on. Get over it already.
> Anyway, I will wait and see what happens with Groce.
Please do. In the meantime how about trying to support the program instead of being so negative?
Uh, what? I *do* support the program. Chances are I send a lot more money to that program than you do. But that doesnt mean I have to sit here and pretend the new coach is a slam dunk. *NO* coach is a slam dunk. I liked Bruce Weber but he is gone and after last season I agreed with that decision; a coach has to have the support of the fan base and clearly Bruce did not.
But I was not really excited about the Groce hire. We heard how great of a recruiter he is, and frankly I would like to see some results, especially at point guard where we are weak and have lost our two recruits at the position and have not replaced them. We can all agree that Coach Groce needs some time to implement his system and recruit... but he doesnt get forever. I am very concerned that with no PG coming in, and no PG even recruited for next season at this point, the program is entirely reliant on Tracy not just for this season but for next season and maybe even the season after that (while a freshman recruit comes up to speed). The two PGs we lost may or may not have been good Big Ten PGs, but at least they could play the position and one of them could have been a stop gap until more help arrives, to back up Tracy and play when he needs a breather or is in foul trouble.
I support the program, and thats why I would like to see some results on the recruiting front. A decent point guard would be a huge step at this point. You say we are on recruits lists, well being on their lists doesnt win games. Lets hope we see some recruiting success soon.
> I was not really excited about the Groce hire.
Really? That's a shocker, but way to *support* the new coach.
> We can all agree that Coach Groce needs some time to implement his system and recruit... but he doesnt get forever.
Or apparently, even four months in your opinion. He was just hired on March 29th.
> a coach has to have the support of the fan base.
You're a funny guy Houston. I like you. You make me laugh.
So, if Coach Groce does sign a top recruit at PG and say the Illini do make the Tourney this season then you were a Coach Groce supporter all along. Right? ;-)
I am not sure you can read well. I am not saying Groce will succeed or not. Its way too early to tell. In fact thats my whole point: the jury is out. I would think that is so obvious that most reasonable people would agree.
And if coach Groce recruits well and we win, no I will not say I was a coach Groce supporter. Personally, I think we could have done better. But that being said, he is not a 'bad' pick. Overall I think he is an average or maybe a bit above average choice. Not by any stretch a slam dunk, but certainly not a terrible choice. And BTW, my opinion of the Groce hire has nothing to do with my support of the program. But forgive me if while my heart bleeds orange and blue, my head still does my thinking.
As far as giving him time, in the post you reference I mention the need to give him time. We all agree about that. We cant expect an instant huge improvement to the roster. But 'some time' doesnt mean 3+ years either. Certainly any new hire shouldnt need 3 years to start winning. That is why its so important to bring in a good 2013 recruiting class and especially fill the hole at PG. Recruiting wings is nice but you cant play 4 wings and a center. We need to get a PG in next season's class so he can start to develop because it usually takes PG's a season. If we wait until 2014 to get a PG then we are talking 2 seasons til he gets here and another to develop and learn to play D and run the offense.
Now please re-read what I just typed so you actually talk about what I said, and not your preconceived notion of what I think.
Houston: "And if coach Groce recruits well and we win, no I will not say I was a coach Groce supporter."
Houston: "a coach has to have the support of the fan base."
So, you support the *team*, but you don't support the coach because he wasn't your choice. Nice.
By your own admission, you say that the coach needs the support of the fan base, yet you refuse to support the current coach.
Houston: But forgive me if while my heart bleeds orange and blue, my head still does my thinking.
It seems that if your heart truly bleeds orange and blue, you'd at least back the new coach until he's shown in some capacity that he doesn't deserve it. You do want to see the Illini win, don't you?
I can't wait for your next comment questioning my ability to read. You do realize that those are your words in quotes, don't you?
You're still a funny guy Houston.
Where did I say I do not support coach Groce? I said I 'was' not a supporter, ie, **when the hiring decision was being made**. I think we could have done better. But that has nothing to do with supporting him and the team now. Of course I support them. They are my college team and he is the coach.
Oh and by the way, one fan does not comprise the 'fan base'. Even if someone doesnt support Groce, that hardly means the fan base as a whole doesnt support him. There were people last year who claimed to not support the team because they wanted Zook and/or Weber fired. But that hardly means that most fans didnt continue to cheer for the team and wish them the best.Thats just stupid logic on your part.
You really seem to have difficulty reading. You have your mind made up about what (you assume) I think, and dont really read what I say.
Think about your ridiculous logic. You are saying that anyone who didnt think Groce was the best choice is not a supporter. Thats just dumb. Its entirely possible to disagree with a decision yet still support the program. People have always disagreed with this hire or that hire, or whether a recruit was the best fit, yet still when the team took the court they supported their school's team.
Your rabid response all comes from my simple point that we dont know if Groce will succeed. The jury is out. There is no proving what will happen in the future one way or the other. All we can do is wait to see what will happen. Maybe Groce will turn out to be the second coming of John Wooden. Maybe he will be fired in a few years. We dont know. And attacking me because I am pointing out that simple fact is just ludicrous.
Houston: "Where did I say I do not support coach Groce? I said I 'was' not a supporter..."
Seriously? You're way too funny.
Houston: "... ie, **when the hiring decision was being made**."
Okay, so now you're just a "doubter", but that doesn't mean that you don't support him, right? ;-)
Calvin's note about "Bruce's legacy to us all" seems to have bothered you and invoked a rather negative response about Coach Groce's recruiting, but we know that you're willing to wait and see before making any judgment, right?
For the record, I'm quite happy to support Coach Groce and give him a chance before making such negative comments. Did it ever occur to you that maybe the reason that the Illini didn't hire *your* choice was because Coach Weber had diminished the program to such a point that some candidates didn't find it attractive? If nothing else, I think that Coach Groce doubly deserves the support of the fans.
Peter Borich's statement, "Go Illini . .Go Coach Groce . . .Prove the doubters wrong . . .", prompted your "Doubters? arent we ALL doubters?" statement.
Houston: "Your rabid response all comes from my simple point that we dont know if Groce will succeed."
I'm not the one getting all frothy mouthed here. :-) Notice, I've managed to refrain from the personal insults and questioning your reading and logic skills. I've never questioned that we don't know whether Coach Groce will succeed, I've just called you on your negativity about it.
Go Illini . .Go Coach Groce . . .Prove the doubters wrong . . .
well the article was about UNC and Kentucky. I will go way out on a limb and say that the draft choices from those schools were a lot more prominent than one pick from UI. Duh. Coach Weber was there, regardless of whether or not this article mentioned him or any other coach besides UNC and UK. And by the way, if you could read, you would see I said 'I didnt see too many coaches at the draft'... I didnt say there werent ANY. Obviously when Kentucky picks fill the first round its not surprising to see their coach there. Thats a bit different from a coach of a player who was expected to go late lottery and wasnt even the coach at that school anymore. God it rerally irks you guys that Leonard liked his coach. Jeesh get over it already.
Personally, I think it's great that Meyers has a good relationship with Coach Weber. The fact that Coach Weber couldn't prepare the team better to play against a last place Nebraska squad at Devaney Center leading to an 80-57 blowout of the Illini and had his NBA draft first round lottery pick crying on the bench sits a little less well with me.
You making such a big deal about Coach Weber being at the NBA draft just shows that you still haven't gotten over your man-crush on him.
actually the issue was about Leonard returning, and how Weber leaving closed the book on that. Leonard himself indicated that. This has nothing to do with Weber's coaching performance. It has everything to do with Leonard's desire to turn pro and his feelings about his (former) coach.
Houston: "I think there was a very good chance that Leonard would have left anyway..."
Houston: It has everything to do with Leonard's desire to turn pro and his feelings about his (former) coach.
Don't sell yourself short here Houston. We all know that it also has everything to do with *your* feelings for his (former) coach too.
Uh, no, I dont think my feelings about Leonard or Weber had anything to do with Leonard's decision to leave!!?? Personally, I think I will go by Leonard said and take him at his word (and second hand reports from people like Klee who talked with him). Sure sounds to me like Leonard was leaning towards leaving, and when coach Weber was fired, the odds went to 100%.
And BTW, why the obsession with what I think about Weber? I liked the guy but agreed it was time for him to be let go. Hopefully we do well with Groce. And Weber is a good guy and I hope things work out for him at KSU, then everybody is happy. ...Except I suppose the Bruce haters who will be forced to douse themselves with gasoline and set themselves ablaze lest they suffer living in a world where Bruce is successful, LOL.
Houston: Uh, no, I dont think my feelings about Leonard or Weber had anything to do with Leonard's decision to leave!!??
Okay, Houston. You can sell yourself a little bit shorter than that. You've swung too far to the other end of the spectrum. I was only referring to your response.
Houston: Except I suppose the Bruce haters who will be forced to douse themselves with gasoline and set themselves ablaze lest they suffer living in a world where Bruce is successful, LOL.
Well, I'm not one of them. :-) Coach Weber has again inherited another coach's team with a lot of talent, but having to face Coach Self at least twice every season has not set him on an easy path. If he manages to find long term success at KSU that will say a lot about his overall abilities as a coach.
Another example of ESPN trying to make sports news instead of just report and analyze sports news. This is even more ridiculous than preseason polls and preseason All-America teams. Why don't we just let them play games before anyone gets ranked, honored and bracketed?
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